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having a gun in the basement and knowing how to use it would have changed this story.

everyone that's asking the guys that feel Zman is guilty to justify their opinions are seem to not have a good understanding of opinions.  Our opinions are formed not just by the information we have but the context in which we interpret that information.  TMF and DaveS interpret the information differently than i do but thats based on their knowledge and experience and mindset when looking at the information they are given.  I see nothing wrong with them having that opinion especially when for the most part both seem willing to accept that the trail is where the truth of the event is mostly likely to come out and whichever way it goes both seem willing to accept the decision.  

Unfortunately, I've answered way too many calls where a man beats a woman, but don't think it doesn't happen the other way around on occasion too. As far as this is concerned, it's a good idea to show it to the women folk in your life who think that you'll be there to protect them, or that if you don't resist the thief will leave them alone while they rob you. I could put a bullet between his eyes and feel nothing.   EDIT: Geez, I should have proof-read before I posted. That's what I get for being busy.

I went through these two mechanically, did some polishing, replaced what needed replacing and they both run smooth and true. Time for some makeup. I know purists won't much like these but they were both service pistols and they looked used. I did not replace grips or purchase any cosmetic upgrades. I just worked with what I had.

This is exactly the reason I carry even when at home.

Yes, you understood correctly. With that being said, there are some who wouldn't care if the police planted evidence. Afterall, if Zimmerman hadn't stepped foot out of his vehicle, there would've not been a reason for evidence.

Warning: Not being racist or prejuice of a race, just speaking the truth   See, there's no white or black in Latin america, you are from that country. But I guess people up here are that smart that can't figure that out, thanks to a certain group that can't figure out what they want to be called: African-American, Black American, Black, Negroes, Brothers, etc.  BTW, most Latinos, usually go by their Country of Origin, so in my case my parents are Dominicans, but I was born here, but I still consider myself Dominican due to my parents.    But just want to make sure every knows, I did my time manning the walls and will do it over if need be. 

So you don't believe he is guilty of 2nd degree murder, but since he got out of his truck you are "ok" with it if the jury finds him guilty of 2nd degree murder? You really should seek professional help man ...

The difference between TN and NJ is after that happened where I live, the hunt would be on!!!!!!! Of course, the headlines would be totally different,"Home Intruder Mauled by Pit Bulls"

  :shake:   First of all, not all Hispanics are Mexicans and not all Hispanics eat Tacos. My parents are Dominican (Dominican Republic, you know that little country that won the WBC this year) and we eat other things and tortillas are not in our diet. There's no such thing as "white-Hispanic", there's Hispanic that has a white skin complexion or you can say what their nationality background is: Mexican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, etc..    And not every spanish speaker is Mexican or speaks Mexican, it's "Spanish". :hat:

I don't dispute any of the verifiable facts of this case. I do still question what really happened during the initial physical confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin. I hope that the truth regarding the attack will come out during the trial. If you will go back to the first epic thread, you will recall that my issue with Zimmerman was the fact that he got the ball rolling on this incident. I still FEEL very strongly that had Zimmerman simply notified the police, provided a good description and direction of travel of the suspicious person his life wouldn't be in turmoil. If Martin circled back on Zimmerman, thrashed him and then proceeded to bang Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk causing Zimmerman to fear for his life and shoot Martin in the process, I understand. With that being said, I will maintain that Zimmerman's initial actions of pursuing/following Martin cased the deadly chain reaction and were unnecessary.

I'll take a Swiss Cake Roll over a Twinkie any day!

Surprised? No. Disappointed? A bit. Ashamed of statements like this being put out on a public forum for the world to see and judge all gun owners (and by extension myself) by? Absolutely.

A lot has been made about what Georg Zimmerman siad and even didn't say immediately after his self-defense shooting.  I've menteioned in this and other threads why a citizen, no matter how justified he was in defending his life, needs to be cautious...very cautious about what he he says to 911 and/or law enforcement and especially so within a short time following the shooting.  This article lays out a pretty good plan for what to do...   Obviously, this article is pushing you to a particular defense network...I strongly suggest that every one who carries a weapon for self defense have the kind of services these groups offer (there are several to chose from).  More importantly, if you don't have at least the office number and hopefully cell phon number of at least a couple of attorneys that you can call when you've been involved in a SD shooting you need to get them! ANY OF US could wind up EXAXTLY where George Zimmerman is today; sitting in a court room defending himself with six or 12 people deciding where he may spend the next 10 years, 20 years or even the rest of his life...take measures NOW so that if it hsppens to you, you have some help available to deal with it.

I guess 30 minutes is enough if 99% of what you've got to hang your hat on is emotion rather than facts. ;)

It has been debunked. Although it is amusing to think of a Hispanic guy using the term "coon".

I feel the same if it were my kid, but I don't think pointing out how irresponsible it was of the girl to put herself in a situation where a very likely outcome was rape takes ANY of the blame off of the criminal(s) who committed the crime. They need to pay. I see folks get emotional on this because they confuse a lack of sympathy for the victim as either condoning or forgiving the actions of the SOBs that committed the crime. That couldn't be further from the truth. A person's irresponsible actions never excuses a criminal from their responsibility for committing a crime. It's just that folks need to understand that when you put yourself in these high risk situations people might not have any sympathy for you because you should know better. Kinda like when base jumpers die from smacking into a cliff and lawn darting themselves. No, they don't deserve to die because they enjoy base jumping, but I won't expend an ounce of sympathy for someone who dies doing something they know may very well result in their deaths. These girls who get dressed up in slut action gear and get blackout drunk around a bunch of horny young dudes don't deserve my sympathy either when they get three hole qualified. Sure, the perpetrators deserve to go to jail for committing a crime, but it doesn't mean I'm expending any sympathy for the victim.

I'll be holding off on either console until I see the reviews. I have an Xbox, PS3 and a wii. Wii is for the kids, PS3 is for Netflix/bluray and the Xbox red ringed after the first year.   Personally, I prefer gaming on my PC via steam...

I have an honest question for Link, DaveS, and TMF. You guys seem to be somewhat sure that GZ is guilty but you've yet to say(unless I missed it) how exactly you think the events unfolded that night.   I was able to listen to a portion of live testimony yesterday but not all of it. Did they cover the wounds that Martin had? From what I heard previously, Martin's only wound was the gunshot, did they confirm this?   I'm just trying to understand what it would take for Zimmerman to be guilty and the only scenario I can come up with is that Zman followed Martin, assaulted him first, and then shot him after he started getting his ass kicked. If that's how it unfolded then I would absolutely say he deserves to be found guilty.   However, if Martin had zero wounds other than the gunshot it should be fairly obvious that it didn't go down that way.   Also, do you guys honestly think Zman would request police presence and then walk up and assault Martin? Surely he's not THAT stupid.    So I will ask you guys, what am I missing? We already know that following someone is not a crime but I missed the part yesterday that explained whether or not he was actually following him.   Help me out here.

Please don't tell me that you were surprised.

That graphic made my day. I think you can leave the mat out though. I'm pretty sure his Jarjar Binks impression was meant to be serious. I'm poking fun at the presumptuous racist attack on someone's 16 year old daughter.

Or just shoot the son of a *****. A dead thief is the only kind of thief I can tolerate. I know some here see more value in a human life than in material, but I bust my ass everyday for anything I have. Any man that makes the decision to take it has made his choice, and if you've made the choice to steal then you staying above ground and breathing doesn't matter to me. Maybe if more thieves were shoot or hung we wouldn't have these problems. Sorry about your things OP, I hate a damn thief. sent from the backwoods

  So was every, single individual who signed the Declaration of Independence.   I'm not necessarily putting Snowden on the same level.  However, when the government is betraying its own people then perhaps the only way to do the right thing for one's country and it's people is to act against that government.

 i have 600,000 in stock this morning

they should name High Schools after Snowden.  He is not a traitor.     6.8 I enjoy your posts on this topic.   The .gov is pissed because he has dirt on them.   Bunch of scumbags they are.  Not a one is a patriot. They crap on our constitution and try to sell it as protecting us.  

Apples to oranges. Try the 5.45 vs 5.56. Also, service life? AK only lasts 40 years? WTF? Are there any M16 rifles around from 40 years ago?

I'm glad it worked out so well for you.

Looks like Zimmerman's attorney missed the mark again: http://www.theonion.com/articles/george-zimmermans-attorney-opens-second-day-of-tri,32953/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Status:2:Default

Captain Underpants! Maybe I should get some thunderwear. 

Anyone think it was only a round of golf now?

  Holy @#$%!!!! They're no longer trying to rape anymore! ANNNNNND I still won't buy from them, principle you see...

IF you thought her cross was bad for the prosecution you should be watching ms bahadoors cross if your not already.       watching this trial is almost as entertaining as watching the walking dead.

That will be for the jury to decide.

Couple things,  there are actually white hispanics.  For census data the US does not consider hispanic a race rather it is an ethnicity many LE departments reports are written up this whay to where they have a block for race and another for ethnicity.  So a white person having origins in latin america, mexico etc would be considered a white hispanic  white denoting race and hispanic noting ethnicity.  just as a black person having origins in the same country would be a black hispanic.     On a more important note at least we can all settle the caliber debate once and for all.  a 9mm from a keltec incapacitated a person in one shot.  :)-

Thanks for the update. But Gander Mt quit being a "deal" along time ago. They were great to buy hunting and reloading supplies from back in the 70's- 80's, worth the 150 mile round trip drive from northern Illinois to there store in Wisconsin. I wouldn't drive across town to buy from them these days. JMHO

No...No...No...you don't understand; Zimmerman is a "white-Hispanic" so it's likely he doesn't eat tacos.  ;)

I've done read about 5 different versions ofthat call. The word "Punk" is most consistent, so punk it is! Dave S No worries. Zimmerman probably had a mouth full of taco when he made the call, so it wouldn't be difficult to misunderstand the difference between punk and coon.

What a dummy. Also those shoes will never be as cool as Jordan's.

I hate to make this political.......Ah why not...It was reported that Chris Christie broke down and wept tears of joy and just blubbered like a baby when the news was announced....LOL

Well no wonder. Whenever I palace and order the vendors know I'm taking it seriously. It costs some coin to set an order up in a palace.

Zimmerman seems totally believable in that video, with the exception of how he described drawing the weapon. There, he seems to hedge a bit. To me, that makes his prior description even more believable. From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter at this point whether he drew and shot or TM was going for his weapon and he drew and shot. Self defense either way.   Add to this that the help 911 call wasn't released until days later. GZ didn't know it would become part of the case, yet he describes it just as it happens on the help 991 call.   Reasonable doubt. Yes.   I suspect the big defense prosecution surprise will be girl on the phone with TM before the incident. Don't be surprised if she "remembers" something that she left out in her statement to the police... something that implicates GZ.  Then, she gets invited to The View and gets a book deal.

Or both.

In the past, I have been quite critical of LEOs in general. Being in a position of authority, I hold them to a higher standard than the general population.   I will give credit where credit is due, however. A few weeks back on hwy 109, I saw a trooper helping an older lady change a flat tire. I admire this gentleman, and wish I knew who he was so I could contact his superior and commend him. I hope his spirit catches on within the LEO community. :up:

  I wouldn't ever want to take on a black bear with a blade, let alone a grizzly. ;)   - OS

Welp, whistle-blowers aren't traitors & traitors aren't whistle-blowers. Had the NSA been spying on the Chinese or Soviet militaries (real tangible threats) like they are supposed to be doing, instead of spying on the American people than yea his disclosing of that information would had been treason. However, since the information on the Prism program he disclosed was that of the NSA monitoring & collecting data on every single American citizen, without warrants & without our consent or knowledge, in violation of the 4th Amendment, well that makes him more of a "whistle-blower" than a "traitor" IMHO. The Constitution wasn't written in some super-secret code that only folks wearing black robes or shiney stamped metal badges can understand, the American people are starting to wake up to that fact. Many are also waking up to realize that the biggest, most dangerous threat to the American People is the one that which our own government seemingly poses to both our safety & our liberties. Our safety because they are squandering our national intel resources on domestic big brother bullshit, our liberties because they seem to think that their power over us lowly peasants is no longer limited by our Constitution. Couple that with today's technology ease of abuse & it might be time for the American people to start having some semi-regular "tar & feathering" parties for some of their fellow Americans, just to remind those in posistions of power who works for who.

if it goes to court, they'll keep everything hush hush... so don't expect too much to come out.

You act like a thug, you will be treated like a thug. You act like a hillbilly you will be treated like a hillbilly. You act like a prostitute you will be treated like a prostitute. We live in a society that has told girls their primary identity is in their sexuality and then surprised when they are identified as purely sexual objects. We tell boys that sex is no big deal and then are surprised when they identify sexual objects as no big deal.   Excusing behavior because of unintended consequences is morally corrupt from both sides.   Rape should carry the death penalty. Rape is like murder where the victim gets to live with the crime and the continued threat of their murderer.

  I wouldn't trust a Mexican with an Italian name. :)     - OS

If you're worried about bears, then get bear spray. Far more effective than a handgun and the odds of survival are way better for both you an the bear.

Look....I'm 63 years old and given the chance I'm not going to allow some young buck to kick my ass. If I feel as if I'm in danger......well enough said.