Leaderboard

I've been a cop for about 20 years...Depts ranging in sizes from 1450 sworn to my current one that's about 75 sworn. Yeah, I've met these types.  A minority, but they exist everywhere.  Yes, it's sickening.   Anyway, geography also matters.  LAPD, NYPD, Boston PD, etc., their political views (along with their Dept's and State's), generally, will be vastly different from a TN cop.  Believe me, I used to live/work in New York. Currently, I supervise 13 officers...and I'm pretty proud of them when it comes to stuff like this.

  I have to respectfully, fully disagree.  If a person has the mental capacity to plan an attack like this, then by damned they have the mental capacity to deal with the consequences.

A few days ago I was in a voice chat online when the conversation turned to Barrett 50's. At that point I mentioned the fact Ronnie Barrett refused to service any of his weapons on California since they banned them. And this one guy said "F**K Barrett, we need those weapons for when we have the Oscars and other events like that". I honestly thought the guy was being sarcastic because of his tone of voice.   And this is what has upset me for the last 24 hours now.   Then last night the conversation came up about bullet buttons and high capacity magazines being illegal in California. This guy is from California and bragged about having high capacity magazines and AR's without bullet buttons. He went down a laundry list of weapons and when asked why he can have them he said he was a police officer.   I asked why he is allowed to have high capacity magazines as well as AR's and we are not. His response, word for word, was "I have the right to protect myself and you don't". He went on to say that no "civilian" should be allowed to own a high capacity magazine, semi automatic rifle or any firearm at all. He said assault weapons  are a weapon of war and belong on the battlefield, not on the streets even though he carries one every day. He said the only thing a "civilian" should be given permission to own is a flintlock and if a person wanted to they could put a picatinny rail on it. He went on to say "I can use whatever means necessary to protect myself from you civilians", his words not mine, "and no civilian should have the right to protect themselves". He said that is what his job was. He was asked about his response times and he said his units average response time was 7 minutes. He was then  asked what happens when he isn't there to protect us. He said that doesn't matter and that we should not protect ourselves while we wait.    He said he has worked for LAPD for 18 years and is a liberal through and through that has guns. He threw out all the popular Feinstein and Pelosi catch phrases.   I can't imagine how many "civilians" he has treated badly or used excessive force because he has a "right" to do so or that because he believes we are less of a human being than him. He probably is right, he probably does need to worry about protecting himself if he believes he has a right to protect himself from "civilians" that have no right to protect themselves.   I am not upset at the fact he doesn't think we should own high capacity magazines or "assault weapons". It is the fact that he believes he has the right to protect himself and I do not. Or that there is two standards, his and everyone else's.    

I dont think anyone "wants to shoot anyone"...  That is very serious business and i believe most adults with some modicum of reasonability about them fully understand the terrible consequences for all involved with this sort of thing.    What i do believe is happening is that the forebearance and "cup of kindness" and  brotherly concern and compation  that most hard workin folks used to have for their brother and sister citizens has evaporated.  The "dole" and the overbearing rhetoric coming out of the race-baiters, their weak minded children, the main stream media, and sourland politicos have polarized the country as bad as ive ever seen; and im a relatively old man.     People are simply tired of being badgered because they work and have a few things, are tired of being called bigots, tired of havin their pockets picked by the government, tired of government operatives opressing them and turning a blind eye to certain behaviors by some citizens; while wrongly persecuting others, and having the "on the dole" crowd demanding things or else they will tear somethin up or "kill whitey".     I think people are on edge and in their heart of hearts do not believe that this country is a color blind place of equal opportunity for all, nor a place of safety as it's presently being governed; nor do they believe that this county as it is currently constituted is is the place that it was envisioned to be even a generation ago.   They are concerned for themselves, their families, their property, and their neighbors.     They are wary of their government and their fellow citizens who are breathing out threats against them.   I dont think anyone who works for a living will "look for trouble". I do believe that those who say "....were goin to burn, kill, and maim ALA the South African model...." better be damn careful where they decide to do it.   I simply do not believe that people will sit idly by and have what they have worked for destroyed by these "children of lower estate" and their thug accomplices.   Ole Charley Manson may not have been as crazy as he seemed when he talked about the comming race war. He may have been a visionary; seeing far into the future.  I think that folks need to understand what has been preached in places like the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church in Chicago; is not a message of brotherly love and christian kindness.  It has been quite the opposite.  The last thing that the 'social gospel" is is the preaching of brotherly kindness and love.  And, the truth is that the Rev. Jeremiah Wright aint the only preacher in the black community sayin these things.  You add the Black Panther dimension to this stuff; plus the race-baiters, and demigogue polititians and you get what we've got.   You add the permissive blind eye post-civil war reconstruction selective prosecution atmosphere created by Eric Holder, and you simply embolden these folks to act on these evil impulses.  I think more and more people are realizing this and are becomming alarmed by it.  I think they well should be.  Do i think there will be trouble here?  Will there be trouble in other places?  Probably so.   leroy

  No, they don't.  They are not allowed to take part in the legal institution of marriage that provides a wide variety of legal privileges and benefits.  These are being denied to a specific segment of our population simply because their lifestyle doesn't fit the worldview of a political majority in this country.  As long as benefits are being made available to married couples, something that I think should end, then same-sex couples should be allowed to legally marry and live their lives together just as I am allowed to do as a heterosexual.   And before anyone asks, I also think that polygamous folks should be able to marry as well as long as all involved are consenting adults and are aware of the multi-partner relationship.  It's none of my concern whether some guy wants to marry one woman, one man, or a group. As far as the Christianity argument goes, it seems as if most Christians in this part of the country would be more than happy to establish a Christian state much like the Muslim nations in the Middle East.  Folks around these parts claim to support personal freedom, but do so only as long as everyone submits to the same interpretation of the Bible as they do.  The mention of homosexuality as an "abomination" is in the same part of the Bible that also says eating shellfish is an "abomination" and encourages stoning of women who don't submit to their husbands.  Homosexuality isn't mentioned anywhere in the New Testament, which is actually the true foundation of the Christian faith.  Why religious zealots in this country have decided to camp out on the issue of homosexuality is something I'll never understand.

In Amerika 2.0 in order to be tolerant you must be intolerant of people who have traditional morals & values.

I thought this was the sticker:

  I just opened another account and named it Daddyoisgay13.     LGBT people are normal,  I support it. 

A paper grocery sack isn't "suspicious" nor is entering/exiting a retail establishment that sells alcohol beverages amongst it's groceries items. The agents had zero RS, let alone PC to reasonably believe that a crime had been comitted by those girls &/or the clerk at the store. Bottled water, cookie dough & icecream = a couple of innocent college girls getting bum-rushed in the parking lot by plain clothes officers with brandished weapons? No-one should be "ok" with that.

  Well, here is a newsflash for you.........underage drinking is a crime ABC agents focus on in every state.  You are not going to see ABC agents investigating crimes like murder, rape, robbery, etc....  They are going to focus on alcohol related crime, that is their job.  Odds are that Harris Teeter store has a track record of selling alcohol to underage people, so the agents are merely focusing their efforts where the crime exists.  They are going after the buyers, but ultimately want to get the sellers.   That being said, and if the news story is accurate, the tactics they used are just plain dumb.  Swarming three young ladies in a store parking lot, at night, in plainclothes is just ridiculous.  At the very minimum, the agents who make the contact should be in some sort of uniform that makes them immediately recognizable a LEOs.  And here is another suggestion for these agents:  in the future, it might be prudent to have an agent in the store to verify that someone actually bought alcohol.....and not bottled water.  These guys were full of the stupid.  I can only hope that they will look at this, learn a lesson and change their tactics.

Many people won't agree, but I have and always will support this. We have no right to tell someone they have to lay there and suffer in levels of pain that most of us will never know exist

Oh good lawd! The comments on that thread make me think just one thing. Thank you David for not putting up with that kind of over the top racist garbage on this forum. Seriously, thank you.

Like I said above, there is a difference between doing something unpleasant that you HAVE to do versus wishing for something catastrophic to happen so you can get your shoot on. I think folks in the B column do not represent our community well, just as folks who riot and loot do not represent those communities well. At any rate, I'll admit there was a time I was in the trigger happy column. Then I went to war for the first time. My opinions on the supposed glory of fighting bad people changed drastically.

      They don't like LSU either!!!

  Can you point some of these folks out? Wouldn't those folks be looking to incite riots so they could achieve their goals? Maybe we just just get some rubber bullets so we don't hurt anybody when they kick in the front door? :)   I'm not itching to shoot anybody, but am sure not going to be wishy washy about it if I have to fight off a mob. It will be ugly for them, even if they wind up getting me.

Getting traffic to move over was right. NOT presenting your gun was the right thing to do too. Your grandkids were there and no reason to esculate the morons pi**y mood. You did right. You walked away the winner, as he already prooved he was a losser!   Dave

Is it just me or is it getting harder & harder to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" these days?

The truth is that we need to start cracking down on felony stupid by our public servants, and this is a perfect example of felony stupid....  I'm not sure you could get a conviction...  but we should have a civilian group that can investigate, charge and bring to trial public servants that commit violations under the color of law.  This group needs it's own budget and the ability to act independently from the DA's office, since the DA and the police are often on the same 'team' in criminal matters.   If I were on such a review board, with these facts, I'd push for a kidnapping under the color of law charge, and would push for the maximum penalty under law against these 'agents'.  Would they all get convicted, I'm not sure...  what I do know, these agents would never do something this stupid again...  And if you 'threw' the book at public servants a few times a year, I suspect the number of these felony stupid incidents would drop dramatically.   We give a lot of power to our public servants and with that power we need to hold them to a higher standard of the general public.  They need to be on the hook personally for each and ever action they take.  They need to understand that any civil rights violations they perform will result in not only the loss of their job but the loss of their freedom.  I know it's harsh, but the current results just aren't acceptable so something needs to change.

The funny thing about this for me is, while I worked in Western Africa in 2004 and 2005 I totally despised AK weapons as I on several occasions witnessed children having them strapped on them and on occasion had them pointed at me at check point stops to find out if I was French, if not for my American passport I would have been executed by one from a child's hands during several uprisings that I had to crew change through. These weapons always seemed like piece of crap cheap guns that anyone in a third world country could easily obtain. I refused to buy one back when they were dirt cheap. But the one I bought from Hershmeister changed my opinion. I have fired just over 400 rounds of some extremely cheap military surplus ammo that was given to me for free, this gun will not malfunction no matter what I do to it, it shoots where I point it and is a blast to shoot. I still love my AR15 rifles but I have a strange suspicion that when I get my Krebs it will become my favorite long gun

  Woosh

Youtube supports gays = U.S. Pest Control supports bugs.   Lets face it, it's a business.  They will support anything that will bring in additional hits. Youtube is global, so that means millions upon millions just gave them a thumbs up. Gay is the new black (as my wife says), it's almost trendy. If next week it becomes cool to marry your house plants, you better believe that other companies will come out "blossom" in support of it.   That being said, I understand if people want to stop using their service. I'll continue using it though, been on there for years without seeing anything gay. Well, cept Bear Force One  :rofl:

  Yes it is, but disagreement does not = bigotry and hatred.

I don't really think this one falls under a "thug down" designation. The offender in this case a man suffering from mental illness, who obviously had a psychotic break that endangered others and ended his life. While I do not mourn his death, I will not celebrate it either.

With concealed carry permits somewhere between five and ten percent of the population (and remember that the concealed carry permit might be Dad's protecting Mom and the kids) and with other legitimate gun ownership by business owners and home owners, there's a whole lot of armed people who can make burglary and robbery a very dangerous occupation. When burglary & robbery is a low-risk crime of opportunity, there are a lot of them. When burglary & robbery becomes a high risk crime, fewer criminals will burglarize and rob. Partly because a lot of them will be dead or at least seriously wounded.

doesn't matter to me really what the bible says anyway.  I prefer the golden rule as a guide to life.

This is like the fat guy in cycling who buys a $6,000 road bicycle to impress his friends... who've bought $3,000 bicycles... who get passed by guys like me on a $1,500 bicycle......       .... who gets passed by my training partner on his $900 bicycle. :surrender:

Any employer so draconian that they would use dogs trained to detect firearms is probably not a place I'd want to work at. Everyone's decision about that has to be their own but I'd certainly be looking for a new place to work or taking retirement as soon as I was eligible. Personally, I'm going to be pushing for changes in the law that simply makes it illegal, as a matter of state employment law, for an employer to passively search a vehicle (such as with the dogs you describe) or to even ask or compel a search of a vehicle. No one should be able to compel a search of a vehicle except a law enforcent officer with either probably cause or a search warrant. It should be that way for a person's body...it shoudl be that way for a persons home...it shoudl be that way for a person's vehicle.

With the use of random searches and dogs trained to detect firearms, out of sight and silence are not enough.

OK. They did have some Corn Holing there. Apparently, it doesn't mean what it used to.

I have shot 'em. They go bang, a projectile goes down range and a casing ejects from the chamber.    Give me an AK over an AR any day.

Gordon next time you talk to him tell him Mike Hahn said to go "F" himself.   Except add the "uck" to it.   I have no respect for those who think they are better than others.  He sounds like a total jackass and if possible I would tell him how I feel personally.     Yeah,  I should not defend myself or my loved ones but he can?  Yep, he can go pound sand.

One of the predominant thoughts I've taken away from today's two-day class with Massad Ayoob on the rules of engagement for the armed citizen is that the overwhelming responsibility for a "fair trial" when charged in a SD shooting rests with the armed citizen and his defense team...it's their collective responsibility to not be drawn into the traps that will be set by the prosecution and to "educate" the jury who, with almost 100% certainty, will know NOTHING about firearms or what it's like to be in a life or death, violent encounter where you have between 1-3 seconds to make that decision to fire. Whether Zimmerman and his team can do that or not is too early to say but I to think there is at least hope. One thing I truly believe is that had this not been a shooting involving a "white-Hispanic" and a black teenager (i.e. if both had been the same race) this trial would have never happened. What that should tell us, however, is not just what the status of race relations are in this country but also that WE COULD FACE THE VERY SAME THING no matter how righteous the shoot was. In other words, carrying a deadly weapon means the citizen has both tremendous power (to take the life of a citizen) and tremendous responsibility. We need to be ready for the aftermath of a shooting - if we aren't, then we probably shouldn't be carrying.

Well, here is a newsflash for you.........underage drinking is a crime ABC agents focus on in every state. You are not going to see ABC agents investigating crimes like murder, rape, robbery, etc.... They are going to focus on alcohol related crime, that is their job. Odds are that Harris Teeter store has a track record of selling alcohol to underage people, so the agents are merely focusing their efforts where the crime exists. They are going after the buyers, but ultimately want to get the sellers. That being said, and if the news story is accurate, the tactics they used are just plain dumb. Swarming three young ladies in a store parking lot, at night, in plainclothes is just ridiculous. At the very minimum, the agents who make the contact should be in some sort of uniform that makes them immediately recognizable a LEOs. And here is another suggestion for these agents: in the future, it might be prudent to have an agent in the store to verify that someone actually bought alcohol.....and not bottled water. These guys were full of the stupid. I can only hope that they will look at this, learn a lesson and change their tactics. Sorry sore subject. Kinda like NFA laws. I can join tbe military at 18 (17 with parental consent) and go fight and possibly die for my country but I can't drink a beer. Like I said, maybe we could focus all this time and money on real crime instead of having another useless agency like the ATF. sent from the backwoods

I'm still waiting to hear one legitimate argument as to why gays should not be allowed equality under the law. And the bible is not a legit argument, due to separation of church and state. Without u tube I couldn't field strip half my guns...

  and the rest don't care.

  I say in the long run it aint goin to.  I think we are gonna see this country devolve into a confederation of sorts just as ive opined.  One will be comprized of  "on the dole"  states; the other the "ya have to work" states.     The "on the dole" states are goin broke.  They will demand more dollars for the "dole".  They wont get 'em; they will (...and are...) dry up .  The Federal gubmt will try to put the arm on the "ya have to work states".  Some smart governor about like Rick Perry (...remember him, he wuz "too dumb" accordin to the media the the republican insiders to become president...) and some smart state's attorney will sue the Federal Gubmt sayin that the Fed's cant withhold dollars duly collected by the individual states (...which the court has already said, by the way ALA John Roberts and Obamacare....).    Said another way: "...what each individual state pays in to the Treasury must come out of the treasury back to that particular state via "block grants" for specific purposes. That means that each state will manage it's particular program (...welfare, healthcare, ect ect...) using state programs as outlined by state law; each state imposing it's particular set of rules (...drug testing, ya have to hunt for work, ya have to go to school... you get the idea....); not the federal government.   It's the rise of "state's rights" vs the federal government redux ALA the Civil War without firing a shot.  The "ya gotta work" states will encourage businesses to settle in their particluar states; that is, they will make their state a "business friendly" state ALA Tennessee (...volkswagen and nissan...) and Texas; becoming richer.  The "on the dole states" have already run all their businesses off, becoming poorer ALA Michigan and Kalefornia.    If what i've described happens, it will clean up the "on the dole" thing, and put the management of welfare, indigent care, dividual states.   Let's hope im right.  Otherwise, we will become South Africa and Rawanda.    leroy

My Machiavellian spidey-senses are tingling, I think it'd be foolish for anyone to underestimate the potential seriousness of this event.

They'll listen to inside traders' tips on the market, that's for sure.   Amazing how they all go to DC and become wizards at investing by no later than second term -- especially the senators. Whether on the market, on properties, futures, whatever, why t's almost like they have inside information that the rest of us don't.   Even the reelection donations are largely graft, not to mention whatever actual in the hand personal graft goes on.   - OS

My hat is off to magpul for even thinking of the idea. I wish companies like this would move to Tennessee and set up shop. I can't believe colorado would pass such stupid laws as that area of the country is so popular with shooting and hunting. I guess stupid just can't be fixed.

Wait, now I'm confused.  In Amerika 2.0 in order to be tolerant, you must be intolerant of people and their choices.  Or is it: in Amerika2.0 in order to be tolerant we have to be intolerant to the people being intolerant of others??   So: tolerance = intolerant of others Or: tolerance = intolerant of others being intolerant of others?   Man, how far down the rabbit hole do we go? :ugh:     It'd be kinda cool if everyone would just mind their own business and let people do what they want to legally do behind their own doors.  The problems start when people want to be loud and proud and force their views on others.

very profound Nicky.   :shrug:

    They need a bit of proof first as well.  4th amendment anyone?   They need a bit more probable cause before a search as well in my opinion.   Maybe they should know some of the other inventory the store as and perhaps even an undercover person inside confirming before they rush people.      sure sounded a allot like an unreasonable search.

OK... speaking of homos. I'm fixing to head to a party where straight folks will be in the minority. And yes, I'm wearing my NRA T shirt. My money says I won't hear any shit, unlike wearing one to a party full of sanctimonious libtards. Probably won't get splattered with any bodily fluids or anal lube either.

I'm generally in favor of more freedom. Doma was clearly unconstitutional. Denying citizens the right to marry who they choose is no different than Jim Crow laws.

I just love to hear Internet badasses say "I would have just whooped that beanpole, I wouldn't have used my firearm" or "I just wouldn't have gotten in that situation" It's to those I speak of, I submit this... 1) That's awesome, you fighter you. Chuck Norris would be proud. The fact of the matter is, this guy is on top of you, which would introduce leverage into the situation and it's not in your favor, regardless of weight. He's on top of you, banging your head against the concrete. Now, do you wait and wonder "Will I be able to toss him off of me before the next blow to the head? Or will the lights go out and it be the end of my life?" Or will you use your firearm? You're a fool if you still believe you're badass at that point. You think if you haven't fended him off by now that you'll somehow kick his tail after the next hard blow to the head? You won't, you'd fear for your life, and you'd stop the threat on your life. At least if you valued your own life. It's easy to say "he did this wrong" or "I woulda done this" but the fact is, if you were in the exact same spot, the result would be the same. Or....you could be dead, your choice 2) From what the evidence shows, the situation came to Zimmerman or he got surprised. Now, you may think you're some sort of spec ops ninja samurai and your situational awareness never drops, but you're wrong. Plain and simple. So please, spare us your complete and utter bullcrap. We can train all we want and we can be as aware as we want, but in most self defense situations you're going to be starting behind the curve. You're going to be reacting to someone else's actions.

Its going to be interesting once the trial is fully over. I don't think TN cities will have anything to worry about but Florida and some other places, definitely. I wonder how many other self defense shootings will be seen once the riots start? Too bad most of the people making the threats don't appear to have the intelligence to understand exactly what they are proposing and the consequences of their actions....but we all know the education and parenting system are broken.

The plan of the left is to make every crime a felony of some degree so they can deny the right to vote and own firearms. Simple enough. Make more felony laws = more felons. Eventually everyone will be a felon or mentally unfit to own a firearm.

Always buy your dog food in the plastic woven bags, not paper. Never cut them open. Take the time to unstitch them. When you save several, you can use some duct tape to make some very good tarps or even tents. I have a buddy who saves horse feed bags for me. Yes you can buy them at harbor freight but that's everyone's problem nowadays. MAKING things yourself teaches you to use your hands. The more you make yourself, the more things make sense to you. Take a man who makes everything he can by himself and you'll see a man who can make things work in a pinch. Even if he's never done a certain thing before. The best survival tools you have were given to you by Gods design. One sits between your ears and the other two are attached to your wrists. Exercise them and you'll be much better for it. A so called survivalist that bought all his kit off the Interwebz will be long dead before the man who actually practices bushcraft the old fashioned way.

And it could double as an anti aircraft sight when all the drones are flyong overhead.