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Does one have to be a Vet in order to be concerned with their rights?  Do I have more rights than my family because I spent 8 years in the military and they haven't?  That's just silly.  Putting a uniform doesn't make you special, it doesn't grant you anything more than any other citizen deserves.  Ok, suppose he is a privileged 21 year old driving his fathers nice cars.  Does that mean he shouldn't have rights as an American?   You're from that area, do you have a dog in this fight?

You don't have to "deserve rights". We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Cliff's Notes:  Kid goes looking for trouble and finds it.

Cliff Notes on Thread: Kid went looking for trouble and found it. Some people agree with preceding observation. Some people disagree and invoke Ghandi, Rosa Parks, etc. Cops like Krystals just like anyone else. I'm now hungry for Krystals.   Did I miss anything?

When it comes to my constitutional rights, I'm not overly concerned about an officer's emotions. If he can't keep them in check and be respectful of a citizen's rights, then he has no business wearing the uniform. My rights trump his feelings all day long.

Here is my 2 cents worth...  Deputy Ross needs to be arrested for kidnapping under the color of law and he needs to be judged my a jury of his peers, and if found guilty needs to face the maximum penalty under the law.  He clearly violated this guys rights and did so knowingly without PC (PC is the required level for a DUI checkpoint).  He used the threat of force while armed to forcibly detain this citizen under the color of law which meets all the requirements for kidnapping under both TN and Federal law.   We all should be calling and emailing the Rutherford County Sheriff to at the very least encourage him to fire this deputy who can't seem to handle situations where no crime has been committed.  It's clear that Deputy Ross and the dog handler knew they were doing something wrong, because they stopped talking once they noticed the camera, and turned it so it could no longer view them...  That to me is a clear sign of their guilt.  If an officer can't handle a rude citizen without violating both the law, civil rights and department policy he should no longer be wearing a uniform.   Also, my guess is that dog handlers days are done...  any future case where he is the K9 officer, the defense is going to play that video over and over again and impeach his credibility.

Am I missing something or is DaveS NOT a benefactor?  Pretty high talk from someone who doesn't pony up if you ask me.

The Officers appears to be old enough to have too much experience to respond like that. His actions were not professional and the guy has recourse on that.   The Officer should have told the man “yes, you are being detained for suspicion of DUI, turn your vehicle off and step out. “   At that point there would have been no reason for argumentative dialog about answering questions or showing ID; test him and arrest him or let him go.   Maybe I’m mistaken, but was that not the K9 handler that said “It wasn’t a very good alert”? If so, he just brought question to his credibility in all past and future cases. There was no need for them to let that dog scratch the guy’s car up. I suspect as a citizen I will be paying for a new paint job. If he was DUI or arrested for DUI, they would have been in that car; they should have waited.   Rookie mistakes.      

thats pretty much what i did but instead of print screen i used the select tool to copy them into paint,  the print screen was to much blank white space and would have made it even worse.        From the way i read the memo, it appears that their plan is to focus their production for the time being on the products that they sell the most of, and prevent having to go back and forth setting up machines on their production line.     Although it really sucks if you just must have an item on that list i think it will help speed the recovery of the ammunition and components market, as time that they previously spent changing out equipment and settings can now be spent manufacturing more.

That video spent 13 minutes complicating a problem that people in this county have been decrying for decades.  Since WWI, the United States has embarked on nearly a century of policies that are simply nothing more than manipulating the global economy using our military might, and the perpetual rhetoric of existential threat to drive military and criminal justice policy.  We have pissed off billions of people across the globe including many of our own citizens.  The social elite in this country work to preserve their own wealth and social status at the expense of the rest of us.  Their efforts are so effective that people refuse to consider alternative policies or political parties.  No tinfoil needed.

Oops, I forgot I put this here. I recently had a chance to grab one of my grail knives. This is a Busse MOAB (Mother of all Bowies). It's the satin knife in the picture. For reference sake the top knife is 17.5" long and .28" thick. The MOAB comes in at a ridiculous 20.5" long and .41" thick. It is an absolute beast of a knife. As soon as the rain stops I'm gonna go find a car to chop in half:)

  is FB a vendor on here?   Why are you advertising for them?   Heathen.

  That's better  :up:

  The same losers that smoke pot with their kids in the vehicle.  

  That's not what your girlfriend was calling me Mike.... :wave:

  Ding Ding Ding

We have some great attorney's on TGO that contribute a lot to the forum but I don't know of any of them who is following every minute of the trial as it's been happening even moment by moment during testimony...he's also done in depth analysis of major elements of the case (such as the title of this thread) and posted it here. Andrew has done that and much more and oh my god, he's mentioned the second edition of his excellent book on self-defense...how awful.  :rolleyes:   The complaints of Andrew not being a "vendor" on TGO might hold a little more substance were it not that Andrew seems to believe that George Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime and those who seem upset about Andrew mentioning his book have been staunchly pro-Martin from the very beginning.  :shrug:

No way. A guilty verdict would require 100% approval. You think six people (men or women) would sacrifice a man because they fear riots? If a guilty verdict comes down it’s because they believe he is guilty.

I don't have any tats.  I wanted to be different.

Thanks for keeping us informed, Andrew...it's appreciated; at least by most of us. ;)

Low and inside would be much better, eh?

The epa could better benefit citizens by reducing the hot air coming from our goverment

tats are fine.  I have a couple.  They both have personal meaning to me and I am not explaining why.     I do get a kick out of generic tat's like chinese symbols or tribal bands.   I saw a pic of a person with a chinese character and it actually stood for General Tso's Chicken, dunno what the person wearing it thought it meant.

http://www.dnj.com/article/20130706/NEWS/307060032/     So much for any civil case.

Police and other LE have a tough, thankless job.  There have been, and always will be those who third base their every move.  All that bein said; most folks hold them to a higher standard.  They signed on for the duty knowin it would be that way.  I simply wouldn't do it.  I'm glad there are those who are willing to do it.   leroy

If ever there was motivation to get off the grid this would be it. Screwing around with my beer is the last straw to a full fledged uprising in my opinion. I'll be at the end of the driveway....anyone with me?

Runco, no offense man.....welcome to the late 90's, 2000's.

The role of a police officer does not entail dishing out punishment, which is apparently what this officer was trying to do in the form of an illegal search. He simply got mad because someone chose not to comply with what he perceived to be an unconstitutional (and therefore illegal) detainment.   Whether or not the kid was acting like a jerk (even though I'm puzzled as to how asking a series of questions about whether or not what is being asked is required is "being a jerk") is no justification for the officer acting like a billy badass.   Dishing out punishment is the court's job.

I am interested in knowing if this little #### has ever done anything for anybody of any value in this world.   I am interested in knowing if this little #### has ever taken responsibility for anything during his brief little self-indulgent life.   I am pretty sure he is not a Veteran back from the mountains of Afghanistan where he's laid it all out on the line. If he ever made that sacrifice or one of similar scope, I would cut him total slack. But, he hasn't. It just is not possible. Vets are used to putting up with real bull#### while actively fighting for everyone else's rights. And, for the most part, they just shrug the little stuff off, because this is little stuff. There are a hell of a lot of other issues to die in a ditch over.   I hope the young man spends $150,000 of his daddy's money, and spends four years of his life, in and out of courtrooms while proving he was right.   I hope the young man's daddy stops paying his university tuition for the next four years to save money for legal expenses in the quest to demonstrate his ever-living rightness.   I hope his daddy sells the BMW he's loaned him, and cuts him out of the family trust while simultaneously admitting his snot-nosed brat is . . . right.   I hope his girlfriend, if he has ever had one, leaves him for being a stupid dumbass . . . while being ever-so-right.    I hope a judge, after hearing three weeks of testimony from $150,000 worth of attorneys -- declares in court that he was right all along, and awards him $1 in damages.   I hope he takes said $1, rolls it up tightly, and jams it up his ass, and thereby gains ultimate pleasure in being right.   I hope he comes to me or one of my associates, in all his glorious rightness, and asks for a job or some other favor, so that I can exercise my rights by laughing in his face.

It's obvious that the young man's intent was to make a point with his recorder but that doesn't excuse the actions of the officers. They illegally searched his vehicle and acted like  a**holes.

Civil disobedience From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search "Disobedience" redirects here. For the 2002 film, see Disobedience (film). For other uses, see Civil disobedience (disambiguation). Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was a figure known worldwide for advocating non-violent civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power. Civil disobedience is commonly, though not always,[1][2] defined as being nonviolent resistance. It is one form of civil resistance. In one view (in India, known as ahimsa or satyagraha) it could be said that it is compassion in the form of respectful disagreement In recent days I feel we have all seen the government implementing a system were by our rights and freedoms as American citizens are being eroded or outright taken away from us. The examples are too many to list here but attacks on gun rights to spying on citizens to targeting citizens for drone attacks are just a few. what we have is a total disconnect between the government and the governed. Those in power no longer govern based on what's best for the American people but rather what will keep and strengthen their own positions in power. The concept of America as a country of united individuals has been replaced by the concept of the have's and have not's. Throughout history we have seen this pattern repeated over and over both here and abroad. Nearly , if not every social conflict in recent times has involved the government oppression of their own or other people. This is clearly seen in the civil rights movement of our own country. There was a time that our own government denied basic rights and freedoms to citizens of African decent in this country. We all either remember or have studied the segregation that was the law of the land in the past. Finally one individual decided that enough was enough and decided to challenge the law of segregation. That person was a woman named Rosa Parks. One day Ms. Parks decided she had been subject to an unjust law long enough and decided to challenge the status quote. That decision started a movement that brought equality to a whole class of citizens in this country. I suppose there is a reason cliff notes are not allowed in most schools today as they never seem to tell the whole story. Would the cliff notes on Rosa Parks says she went looking for trouble. Would the cliff notes on Paul Revere say he went looking for trouble. Perhaps the cliff notes on our founding fathers, those who landed in Normandy on D-day or those in our military serving in distant lands today are looking for trouble. Perhaps a quick read of the cliff notes might allow one to reach this conclusion but when one reads the whole story we might reach a different conclusion. A read of the full story may lead to the conclusion that these people were challenging unjust and oppressive governments and laws. We can all just submit to the commands of government and become their puppets or we, as this young constitutionalist showed, start to challenge these laws and hopefully be part of the process of returning the government to the people. Each one of us must decide our own path in this conflict but we must not allow ourselves to condemn those who decide to be part of the solution.

The funny part about this video, is that the driver baited the officer. And the officer took it hook line and sinker. I am not sure if all Police officers are like this one. But I think a lot of law enforcement officers have forgotten what their function in society is.   They are to protect and serve the community. Not oppress the community. I have been stopped in Davidson county before (at a DUI checkpoint). I rolled down my window(not that I was asked to). And the officer asked me how my night was going, I replied that my night had been fair. I asked him how his night was going, he replied it had been a long night.   The officer inquired had I been drinking, I told him I had not. (this was the truth). And that I had just been to the Krystal and picked up some burgers and was heading home. The officer said that he was going to head that way after his shift was over, and he told be to have a good night and be careful. This exchange took 5 minutes,,   Now let’s look at the issues. Yes the drivers rights were violated I am not going to deny that one bit. Now let’s look at the officers point of view. The driver did not want to lower the window all the way.(this would cause suspicion, that the driver is attempting to hide something like the smell of  weed or alcohol). Was the driver legally required to lower the window all the way ?? “NO”. And I do agree that the dog search was a ruse to allow the officers to search the car? “YES”   Now before I make my closing statement I would like to say, that I take my liberty and freedom very seriously and will defend it at all costs, and the driver did an excellent job in demonstrating the blatant violation of his rights.   In closing I would like to say that a little courtesy goes a long way. If the driver had just lowered the window the whole situation could have been avoided. Remember Police Officers are people too. They have professional issues and personal issues. And believe it or not police officers are human.. (yup hard to believe but it is true). Sadly there are some pointy headed cretins’ on the force that have a raging power trip hard on going, and will stop at nothing to get his/her rocks off… Remember don’t poke the bear. (no pun intended)

This wasn't any trouble or inconvenience for this guy. He set out to have this type of encounter with LEO. He's as happy as a pig in slop. 

Big Boy? Big Boi? Big Bo....errrr... fat man?

I dunno what line made me laugh the hardest.    Maybe " you tried to taze my nuts"   And I feel for the kid, though this is probably the least of what that poor kid has been exposed to.

That or he had none and she had no idea what he was talking about.

I found this today while wandering around the Internet.  It shows several uses for a cell phone in a survival situation including a signaling mirror, making a primitive compass, and a cutting tool.  Pretty cool stuff. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/06/14/survival-cell-phone/

A fraction of 1% per driver stopped and harassed.  It's about the worse use of manpower/tax dollars to stop drunk drivers that any idiot could come up with.   It looks good to the sheeple public, and all the officers involved get overtime paid for by the federal government...  which is the only reason we have these types of checkpoints.      

  Second addition. Like I said... tattle to the mods, and get it over with.   and BTW, I don't think anybody should be able to advertise for free. I just think that there's a way to deal with it. Andrew educated a lot of TGO members on this case. I know you're the exception. Again... report it. Ain't your job to fix it.

  VERY significant contributions to this forum, maybe?

I don't go to lunch, I buy ammo with what I would spend on going out to lunch. Or maybe Chick-Fil-A, haven't decided yet.

Very unprofessional but the kid was a smart ass. Here is my take: 1st I carry a gun so even if he has no "right" to stop me and ask me questions I'll stop, be polite, and unless they ask to search my car everything is fine. 2nd, its been said time and time again "don't try and argue the law with a cop that may or may not even know the law" 3rd, I've been through a bunch of DUI checkpoints and never had anyone act like an ass. 4th, I carry a gun. I have no desire to be dragged out of my car taxed or worse and handcuffed. I'm a big boy and its hard to get up off the ground while wearing handcuffs and a cops taser in my back. 5th, if you treat everyone the way YOU want to be treated things seem to go a lot smoother in dealing with people.

I've always thought ordering Krystals was probable cause - drunk or high?

  I'm glad you don't have any phobias  :rofl:

some people like to jest stick there head in the sand and not try to get to the bottom of what's going on in the world , of corse those are the ones that live in there own little bubble and ignore every thing , and when the SHTF oh no what do I do now. Instead of putting two and two together . Hummmmm

From a pure cost buildup perspective, when formulating and calculating your cost, make sure to include not only your variable cost (bullets, powder, primers), but also you have to bake in your fixed costs too (dies, press, brass prep stuff), and like most your labor is free, otherwise you have to bake that into.   BTW brass would be considered a fixed cost because you can reuse it (at least I do). 

It's called responsibility and pride in ownership. It's what happens when people lack it and are too lazy to get off their asses. A lot of what goes on with government involvement in our lives is because too many people refuse to do the right thing.

  Truck nuts. Hang 'em right behind the flash hider to cut down on muzzle rise.

I wore a Crossbreed Supertuck for years until I recently switched carry guns. I've been too cheap to buy another Supertuck, so far. Plus, I think I'd enjoy trying to make my own. I was inpired by Crossbreed to try this: Before assembly, I lined the kydex with pigskin to reduce the wear on my gun's finish: It didn't turn out too bad and is quite comfy, so I'm gonna try the IWB next.