Wisconsin gun shop ordered to pay nearly $6 million to injured police officers

[Grand Torino]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/14/wisconsin-gun-shop-ordered-to-pay-millions-to-injured-police-officers/?intcmp=hpbt2

 

MILWAUKEE –  Jurors ordered a Wisconsin gun store to pay nearly $6 million on Tuesday to two Milwaukee police officers who were shot and seriously wounded by a gun purchased at the store.

The ruling came in a negligence lawsuit filed by the officers against Badger Guns, a shop in suburban Milwaukee that authorities have linked to hundreds of firearms found at crime scenes. The lawsuit alleges the shop ignored several warning signs that the gun used to shoot the officers was being sold to a "straw buyer," or someone who was buying the gun for someone who couldn't legally do so.

Read more.

[runco]

Very interesting, jury must have found some culpability on the seller's behalf.

[Hozzie]

While I think this is a slippery slope, from the sounds of it, this establishment most likely knew exactly what was going on.  

[FUJIMO]

Ive watched this play out the last couple days on the news. If it stands it can only spell bad things for the future of gun owners.

[E4 No More]

While I think this is a slippery slope, from the sounds of it, this establishment most likely knew exactly what was going on.  

From what I've seen they knew EXACTLY what was going on. I have no problems with this outcome.

[Pete123]

According to the story, hundreds of guns sold through this shop were found at crime scenes, leading me to suspect that the gun shop was trying to keep guns out of the wrong hands.  

 

I'm good with the outcome.  The anti gun nuts make me as crazy as anyone else on this forum.  I also think that those of us with guns have responsibility to try and make good decisions when selling them.

[bud]

. Edited December 7, 2015 by bud

[KKing]

Mixed feelings here. If they can prove that the shop was negligent, nail them to the wall. If they can't prove it, I say slippery slope.


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[TNWNGR]

Intresting case and enough evidence to lead a reasonable prudent mans decision in the validity of said verdict. Its not a slippery slope but a cause to tighten up the ship and not fall into a similar legal fix.

[btq96r]

If the gun shop was negligent in following the law with regards to background checks and straw purchases, by all means, crucify them.  But why was this established in a civil case and not a criminal one first?

[K191145]

I can't form an opinion that i'm 100% certain about, I would have to be on the jury and listen to all the testimony. But, if this becomes a habit of anti-gunners, suing a store or manufacturer for a crime that an individual committed and juries making decisions as a political punishment for a company that makes a legal product then we either have to get just as nasty and low down as they do or just give in. If this becomes their strategy for attacking guns then we need to flood the entire justice system with bogas suits for just about anything, put it into chaos and force a change. "Sometimes" two wrongs eventually do make a right. 

[monkeylizard]

Tens of guns sold by this shop found at crime scenes would be shocking. Hundreds, I'm just not buying that figure.

 

From NBC:

Badger Guns was also previously called Badger Outdoors, and at times was the No. 1 seller of firearms used in crimes in the U.S. — moving 537 guns that were recovered from crime scenes in 2005 alone, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

 

From Yahoo! News about the suit filed by our good buddies at The Brady Bunch on behalf of the officers:

Badger knew or reasonably should have known that selling the .40 caliber handgun to Collins was illegal.

Collins and Burton entered the store together, Burton picked out which gun he wanted, and Collins even wrote that he was not the actual buyer of the weapon while completing a Firearms Transaction Board form, according to the complaint.

“Rather than terminate the sale and contact police about this unlawful straw purchase attempt, Badger Guns conspired with Collins to change his answer to claim falsely that he was the actual buyer of the gun,” it reads.

 

Apparently the jury was convinced that this was true. I have no problem with the verdict if the prosecution proved this.

[monkeylizard]

I can't form an opinion that i'm 100% certain about, I would have to be on the jury and listen to all the testimony. But, if this becomes a habit of anti-gunners, suing a store or manufacturer for a crime that an individual committed and juries making decisions as a political punishment for a company that makes a legal product then we either have to get just as nasty and low down as they do or just give in. If this becomes their strategy for attacking guns then we need to flood the entire justice system with bogas suits for just about anything, put it into chaos and force a change. "Sometimes" two wrongs eventually do make a right. 

 

I really don't see that happening with the current laws. However, Hilldebeast has said she'd work to repeal the current law that protects FFLs from suit except when shown to be negligent, as Badger Guns was.

 

No, I don't see this as a valid tactic going forward under the current laws.

Yes, it will absolutely be used if the laws are changed.

[FUJIMO]

Maybe this is a silly question but how many guns need to show up in crimes from a single store to investigate it for possible criminal activity ???

[monkeylizard]

Maybe this is a silly question but how many guns need to show up in crimes from a single store to investigate it for possible criminal activity ???

 

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the news reports. Where was the BATFE on this one long before the events on this specific case?

[gjohnsoniv]

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the news reports. Where was the BATFE on this one long before the events on this specific case?

Probably "watching them to see where the guns went. "

[bud]

. Edited December 7, 2015 by bud

[btq96r]

Maybe this is a silly question but how many guns need to show up in crimes from a single store to investigate it for possible criminal activity ???

 

Investigators are paid to use their brains, not a decision matrix.  Patterns show themselves when you analyze enough data properly.  There doesn't need to be a fixed quantity over a fixed time span to determine something like this.

[mikegideon]

I have a hard time believing ANY numbers with the Brady Bunch in the room. They lie almost as much as Obama

[K191145]

I really don't see that happening with the current laws. However, Hilldebeast has said she'd work to repeal the current law that protects FFLs from suit except when shown to be negligent, as Badger Guns was.

 

No, I don't see this as a valid tactic going forward under the current laws.

Yes, it will absolutely be used if the laws are changed.

 

That was one of Hillary's threats if she's elected, making it easier to sue gun manufacturers out of business. I wouldn't be shocked and surprised at any tactic she and liberals will try, the Constitution,morals and ethics be damned in their view.

[DaveTN]

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the news reports. Where was the BATFE on this one long before the events on this specific case?

If the crimes were handled by the state how would the BATF know? Do they maintain a database that ties guns used/found at crime scenes to FFL holders?

[mikegideon]

If the crimes were handled by the state how would the BATF know? Do they maintain a database that ties guns used/found at crime scenes to FFL holders?

 

Maybe it's the Brady Bunch lying their asses off again. 500 crime guns means 500 traces to 4473's

[MacGyver]

I did find it interesting in the Democratic debate last night that Hillary accused Bernie Sanders of voting against the Brady Bill.

[10-Ring]

So they put guns in the hands of 537 criminals in one year?  Eric Holder laughs and calls that child's play. 

[analog_kidd]

537 recovered guns seems like a lot to me. I doubt that 537 guns were sold illegally and then 100% of them recovered. Making a total WAG, I would assume maybe 10 - 20% of illegally sold guns are ever recovered. That would mean that the shop was selling upwards of 5000 guns illegally.

 

If there is any truth at all to the number when they say "537 guns were recovered at crime scenes" it was probably privately owned, legally sold private collections of people who were robbed. The police came to the house (crime scene) and found them safely locked in Joe-Bob's safe. Or they were stolen and recovered from pawn shops and returned to the owners. Heck, that could be like just 5 or 6 people if the robberies had happened in the TGO community.   :cool: