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Couldn't help but notice the woman anchor's lead in: "Stockton Police used strong-arm tactics" Kinda set it up to be about a "victim" not a "perp". Then they show the second half and interview witnesses to the arrest before you show the start of the confrontation. He was resisiting and tried to take a policeman's weapon!! The TV reporters didn't follow up to find out he's a parole--not exactly an upstanding guy. That's why I don't watch the news and carefully screen wat I read.

All the training I had said if someone is trying to take your weapon deadly force is authorized because that is their intention if they get it. With that being said anything shy of deadly force in an incident where someone is trying to take a weapon should be viewed as being justified. If the bad guy takes a trip to the hospital and has to stay a while he deserved it for trying to take an officer's weapon. Dolomite

I don't care who you are but if you reach for a cop's weapon you show an intent to kill and should be put down and put down hard. In my opinion this guy was lucky to make it out of there with just a beating. So what if there seemed to be a couple extra whacks after he was down. The officers are clearly aiming for the appropriate spots like thighs and shoulders and I honestly applaud them for showing the amount of restraint they did considering the supsect's amount of resistance and previous grab for the weapon.

At least you won't get shot. Guns are illegal.

OOOH. This begs for a new thread, entitled "Price My Crap !" Theme - Post pictures, and we get to say how worthless it is ! Only the first response can be in $, the rest have to be in redneck trade value (one rusty horse-shoe, 3 Pez dispensers and a Skoal can, Beanie Babies, etc. You get the idea).

There is a lot of Blah – Blah garbage so far in this thread. You want to know why Taurus is seen as a second tier competitor in the firearms world? Because they, like most Brazilian firearm manufacturers, got their start from buying second hand or left over tooling from other companies. They didn’t design them and only learned how to crank out guns in volume at very attractive prices. They bought production turn-key and did not focus as much attention on marketing, customer service, development, and distribution. Because of this they only made a good physical product, but that is not all that is needed for a proper customer experience. They didn’t have the ability to modify design to keep up with consumer preference –remember they bought tooling and not the engineers that designed the guns. They didn’t have a proper marketing and customer support network to give customers assurance of a quality product, and finally when something did go wrong with a product they didn’t have an efficient way to address the problems with the customer. They did this for 20 or so years. They may be improving, but customers don’t forget. It is reflected in price, it is reflected in reputation, it is reflected in resale value. A good analogy would be GMC. They spewed so much garbage for so long that even if they do produce a good product every now and then…people still don’t trust them. Don’t underestimate how much of a business is built on reputation.

If they really are such bad guns ....why are they still around? ... Seems to me that such bad rep and service would be a death sentence in the gun world. I enjoy ours a lot and as Dolomite said..I shot a perfect score with it at HCP range day..So..it cant be all that bad..(Woman's logic)... Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Recently I have been trying to sell off some things I don't need so that I can buy a new rifle or pistol. Well as usual I put them up online and hoped for the best. Well the other day I got a nice e-mail from a fellow saying he was interested in two of the things I was selling, and asked if I could send him pictures and model numbers etc. I do and think that he's quite interested. Well he e-mails me back today and says well I only have x amount and some things to trade, I said well I'll think about that. He then proceeds to tell me that I was asking to much and sent me the ebay links to the supposed items. They were the wrong thing. People, if you're going to argue over pricing and want to use examples, please make sure you get the right item. I e-mailed him back and told him this and thankfully he was not offended and apologized. Could be worse I guess.

I'm biting my tongue so hard, my fingers are bleeding all over my key board...

Can someone rationally explain the Republican obsession with homos and other matters regarding personal choice, religion and science please? There really are more important things to worry about and trying to take this nation back to the middle ages is only going to continue polarizing the people as a whole against those who claim to hold the sceptre of "conservatism".

Yes, but Holder and Obama openly protecting him will be his downfall.

If the doesn't make Obozo look like a loser nothing does...

I'm so ready that my girlfriend is fixing to divorce my ass.

get real Vienna Beef Chicago style hotdogs, and avoid Old Style beer. if you get a chance ride the El to Wrigley Field and go see a Cubs game, try to sit in the bleachers.. There is/was a greasy spoon sausage place underneath the El station there. They have the best polish sausage I ever had. Go to Murphy's or the Cubbie Bear afterwards.

Around 13% actually.

During my 30 year USMC career I was a member, several times, of the base pistol/rifle teams. After one successful season, the base commander sent us to GUNSITE as a reward. I took a Series 80 Colt Commander and a Series 80 Colt Officers Model as my weapons. I had numerous Feed and Eject problems with the Officers Model, mainly due to the slide recoil cycle( short stroke). I ended up using the Commander (the consumate self defense 1911 in my opinion) most of the time. When I had an opportunity to attend the Senior (Advanced) course I just took the Commander. The experience was limited, but the OM had been well broken in (excess of 500 rounds) but the Officers model just didn't perform any where as well as the Commander. Several trips to the gunsmith and factory with numerous polishings, etc. did not solve the problem. I have always believed that it was an ammo issue and that the little gun was ammo picky more than an overall design defect. If I had the patience and had worked more with matching the pistol and ammo, I believe I eventually would have come up with a reliable combination. I love Colts but I didn't really want a gun that only worked with one brand and ballistic mix in ammo. If they quit making or modified the ammo, the gun would then have been useless. I sold it to somebody else. My brother has the Commander and still carries it every day. I carry S&W revolvers, ammo isn't really an issue!

A lot of the people on here are LEO's or former so I really don't think too many people on here are cop haters.

Wonder how many white folks they'll try to keep away from the polls this year.

It took over twenty years and some peer pressure from some of her friends, but today my wife finally started the process to obtain her handgun carry permit. Yippee! The kids are excited. We can now have family night at the range.

Suspect fled. It wasn't a Garand

Yeah, Bush was saying the same thing. Actually 78 times he addressed it and the Dem's who have controlled the Pres, House, or Senate and at least two of those positions simultaneous over the last 12 years blocked it every time. Point is the Republicans need to come together to take the country back and then they can sort out who they want in leadership. Trying to eat the whole elephant in one bite has been the Achilles heel of the Republicans for a very long time. Ron Paul really needs to see the big picture. He keeps trying to win the battle and we are loosing the war. Like the guy but this is his most destructive flaw - to himself and his goals.

HCRoadie, I'm with you but I'll add that if you are not going to wear a seatbelt (or a helmit on a motorcycle) you should have proof of at least a $1 million each of medical and disability insurance. That way the rest of us won't have our medical payments and taxes paying for your choice. The choice is yours but so is the financial responsibility.

The antis always make asinine statements with absolutely NO proof to back them up.

Or plainer: SOLD pending funds Meaning, it's gone unless buyer stiffs seller or something. - OS

Sale Pending Funds

I will never get why so many conservatives are against gay marriage. It really just hurts the conservatives.... driving away some % of voters who would otherwise be conservative. The founding fathers conservatives supposedly cherish were all about personal freedoms. They were also all about seperation of church and state. The only real complaint about the gays is rooted in religion. I cannot make a connection as to why freedom loving conservatives want to restrict the freedoms of others and turn government into morality police. Regardless, it passed. While I disagree with it, generally, it does feel like an "up yours" to the liberals at the same time.

"Shoot-first' laws have already cost too many lives. In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted." Do they even hear how stupid they sound?

I could go back an edit Also a homosexual/queer ban up for vote in NC too. The amendment would bar legal recognition of any union besides marriage between one man and one woman, including civil unions and domestic partnerships for gay and straight couples. Queer marriage is already outlawed in the state. The amendment would block challenges to that ban on constitutional grounds. .

DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!! We have a winner, folks! "Bullseye" is NOT spelled d-e-f-e-n-s-e.

I take Mr. Pincus' word on what he has seen. I've never been a big fan of these little pistols. If you want small AND dependable, get a S&W or Ruger snubbie. One thing I think we've done with the 1911 is make the damn things too tight. The 1911 was designed to be loose and shoot dirty. It had plenty of accuracy for combat, which is all you need in a defensive pistol. I'm still a huge fan of them, though. The 1911 full sized pistol is still one of my favorite firearms!

Let's do it. I post and get redneck trade value? Leupold scope and a Gen I NVD. Starting the bid at...?

Good luck sir. . well wishes and prayers. . on the way. I had some similar issues once upon a time. .was epiditimitus. . oops i just noticed lumber jacks post too its quite common. . and it can be stress related as well

I knew a guy once who knew the "price" of everything and the "value" of nothing.

Not necessarily talking about Taurus here, but what good is a warranty when your weapon fails in a true SD situation? Maybe you can tell the BG "Oh, that wasn't supposed to happen. Dang (insert brand here)!!! I'm gonna have to send it back to the factory for repairs. Good thing it has a lifetime warranty! Can you give me 4 weeks and then we can pick this up where we left off??"

Good luck G, rest assured that my pathologist father-in-law agrees that testicular cancer usually doesn't present pain. You very well could have a bulge in the vas differense known as Epididymitus. this is basically a wall of the tubes that feeds the 'boys' weekens and blows out like a ballon. I know this because I've had it before. Feels very much like getting T-bagged. Now it could be anything, so stay calm and let the docs due their work.

I'll bet Osama's AR would jam in the desert. Word is, he had lube all over his hands

Well, I try and stay out of these discussions... but, I'll point it out again... Carrying a firearm to protect yourself is the key issue here... don't discourage people from carrying just because they can't easily conceal the firearm, OC is better than NC (no carry). There are a lot of people who for whatever reason can't easily conceal... I'm one of those people, my business dress does not lend itself to concealed carry of my Glock 19 even more so during summer months. I'm wearing slacks and a dress shirt tucked in... it's the middle of the day and I need to run into the gas station to pick up something... I'm better off leaving my pistol in the vehicle than on my person just because it's not concealed? Hogwosh More importantly, what does it matter? It doesn't hurt me if somebody carries concealed, nor does it hurt me if somebody carries openly... At the end of the day they're a law abiding citizen who is old enough to know better. It's not my place to judge them on what works best for their personal safety.

I don't know if I would go that far. You're an M&P guy. They had striker issues in some of those guns early on. They are plenty reliable now, as you know. I have always had a general rule of thumb. If the cops will carry it, so will I.

I distrust any weapon I have to send back the factory even once. Of the ones I currently own, not a single one has had to be repaired. I did have one that I had to return, and after it was repaired, I got rid of it as quickly as I could. Warranties are nice and all, but if I can't trust it, I don't carry it.

It is human nature to seek the advise of others. Plus when people are asking they are actually seeking to gather knowledge from the experiences of other. It is like learn from experiences of others and mistakes so you wont make the same mistakes.

Because they make ugly chrome handguns with fake mother of pearl grips and gold accents.

My take on his comments is that some perfectly awesome guns are great for SD or the range, but not suited for a combat class. Also, the guy could've bought the gun the day before the class and thought it would run perfectly without breaking it in since he paid $1200 for it.

Its not just the parent though. My parents were very, very good. And, in the end, I turned out OK as well. But as a teenager, did they really know what I was doing 24-7? No. At some point, 13, 15, 17, a teen begins to be places they should not, doing those things they should not. I did them, most of us did. Rob someone with a gun, no that never crossed my mind, never thought of going off to hurt someone or even damage property, but we did plenty of things that had our parents (or other adults) known would have been "bad" (for us, only victims would have been ourselves!). Thing is, my parents thought they knew where I was, who was there, and what I was doing. Often, they only had the 1 thing right (who I was with). We often found the means to go out and about, and do stuff. Its not their fault for not knowing where we were.... its darn near impossible to do that with a teen unless you lock them in a cage. Which leads to this pretty basic but ugly truth: some people are just no good. Good parents, decent lifestyle, no reason to turn bad, but they do. Other kids have everything against them, and turn out to be productive, well adjusted and great people. Parents are a HUGE factor, but there are plenty of times when good parents produce sorry offspring. Can't blame the parents in every case. In this case? Maybe, maybe not, there isnt enough to say. Sounds like he WAS a good kid. It only takes a few min of peer pressure from the local low-downs to undo a decade of parenting --- and that happens all too often. It only takes screwing up once to get caught and ruin your life, or end it. Was this the first time, or the 100th? In the end, it does not matter.

what does being a mormon have to do with it? I am not understanding that at all. Does every president have to be a methodist or other generic christian denomination? And I would dare say most presidents are as about as christian as I am, but they put on a show to get votes.

I read both those stories and I don't know what else she could have done. She certainly said the right things. It appears that her and the boys father were involved in his life. The kid played sports. Reads like he was a decent kid. If it was a white kid from Bearden would there be any questioning the parenting? Kids get to an age and you cannot lock them down inside the home 24/7. She probably had no idea what he was up to that night, and he probably was put up to it by older kids or an adult.

If a business that pertains to firearms is struggling in this day and age, they are doing something wrong.

Strongly disagree with you, there, ETP. When a "kid" is strong enough to get you on the ground, sit on top of you, and punch you in the face repeatedly, I can most definitely see that fear for one's life or of debilitating injury is reasonable. It doesn't matter if it's rare for people to die from it. When you're being attacked, you're not calculating odds. Statistical probabilities are not the point. The point is that you are getting your ass kicked. You might not know your attacker's strength, or his fighting skill, or how old he is, or his level of rage, or his reasons for beating you, or if he has a weapon, or if he'll be able to take your weapon, or if he's got friends who are coming to join in. As a LEO, you were trained to fight. You were given a number of non-lethal (pepper spray, taser) and less lethal (baton) options to improve your odds in a fight. You were given a radio which, with a single press of a big button, would connect you to someone who would summon aid far faster and in far greater numbers than would come for any regular citizen. Zimmerman did not have that spectrum of options. He had fist, foot, tooth and claw, which were proving ineffective. And he had a gun, which was overwhelmingly effective. He was receiving head injuries which could have led to a loss of consciousness, which could have then led to him having his firearm taken from him. I agree. Conversely, however, if one would indict Zimmerman simply because he didn't get beaten enough, they have no respect for the inviolability of one's person. The correct reason to return a No Bill is if it is reasonable to believe Zimmerman was attacked, brought to ground, and battered further. The correct reason to indict Zimmerman would be if there were reason to believe he initiated the physical altercation. Due to the lack of grievous harm to his face, you have indicted Zimmerman. So do you believe that deadly force can only be used in the face of grievous harm, or after it? As you've said, Tennessee and Florida law say that you may use deadly force when *you* are in reasonable fear of your life or serious injury. They don't say you have to actually allow yourself to be harmed. According to the available evidence, I believe it reasonable to think Zimmerman was in fear of his life or serious injury. The lesson he's learning is not that deadly force can only be used in the face of grievous harm. The lessons are (A) life is not fair, and ( deadly force used against a member of a protected class will get you into a world of hurt, whether it was justified or not.