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And I'm sorry if my comments come off as harsh, or upset. Please understand I'm in a very foul mood, and worried about my wife. While I would not get into a physical altercation with someone, I do feel the need to vent at times. And in a couple weeks, I may even drop the lawsuit idea. But right now, this is just kinda my way of dealing with the urge to skin someone alive, and I knew you guys would be understanding.

Ok, so a little background...I am 42, and originally from Rochester NY...that said I was in G&L on Friday 11/23/2012 to purchase the Christmas present my wife is going to give to me, a .270 Ruger American rifle, cool I know...she is the best! So, they give me a piece of paper to put my name and ph.# for a raffle, I half heartedly listened because I almos NEVER win anything.( I won a 5th of Jack single barrel March of this year) I get a call at 3:05pm on Sunday, I think...wtf is calling me on Sunday....heh...G&L calling to say I won a Sig 1911 22....effin A right? Now, the irony....I am a NY'r, but in 6 mos I win a bottle of Jack and a gun...my friends up north have not stopped with the "you might be a redneck" jokes...but I say...I love it!! Plus WE have no snow and better hunting regs!!

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1353980866' post='851090'] Well i'm glad you cleared that up, so the next time I catch some thief breaking into my tool shed i'll just shoot him in the back, much easier that way. He started the situation anyway.[/quote] Well I don't think that's exactly what anyone is saying. Folks are mistaking measures taken to protect your property as punitive rather than protective. He wasn't killed because he shoplifted. He was killed because he shoplifted, then fought the security guard. If i catch someone stealing out of my toolshed I have every friggin right to confront them. If they chose to escalate the situation with physical violence you better believe I'm going to respond with a greater level of violence. Besides, f**k this guy. He was a dirtbag, likely raised from dirtbags, and will no longer contaminate society.

We are a weak people when we have to stand by and watch thieves walk away. I don't care if its a store employee, Security Guard or Cop; no special training is needed to walk up to a person and ask them to step back into the store they are under arrest. If they decided to fight; so be it. People die fighting trained cops the same as Security Guards. When we have to stand by like sheep and let the criminals have their way there will be no safety anywhere.

He should have just made them pay double the regular price - so that the prices were more fairly redistributed - lol!

At any rate, a great loss to society for sure. He mighta cured cancer or paid taxes someday.

[quote name='vontar' timestamp='1353972096' post='851004'] I remember many times reading about the Mexican Army 'accidentally' crossed our border and we just turned them around and sent them home. [/quote] I remember when drug smugglers were illegally entering the country carrying over 700 pounds worth of pot and when the officers took offensive action, they ended up in jail and the smugglers got a freebie and continued to smuggle drugs for years afterwards until they were caught again.

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1353971601' post='851001'] And you don't think this sounds like a wannabe cop? I don't WANT to be a cop, or I'd be one. If I see someone stealing a DVD player from WM, I'm going to be a good witness - maybe that's not 'principled' enough for you (again, said with very serious face), but my job isn't law enforcement. If someone were being hurt, that's a different story, but that's not the case here. [/quote] No one is asking you to risk anything, or saying that you should do anything. A Security Guard with the help of a couple of employees was doing his job. Since we don’t know what happened I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to the Security Guard and the employees; not dirt bag thief. I know I’m really going out on a limb here, but I doubt those store employees jumped that guy and choked him out for no reason. Does Wal-Mart have a company policy that says the only shop lifters you can take into custody are those that come willingly? I’m sorry the guy is dead, but he put the events in motion that led to his death. It’s sad that some people feel because he died at the hands of security for one of the largest corporations in this country that his family should hit the lottery or that the people during their job should be arrested. What if he is a cop wannabe; is there something wrong with that? A lot of guys work store security until they can get on as a cop. Being a Police Officer s an honored profession. It takes a long time to get on some departments and not everyone can make the cut. Would I stop a shop lifter or help someone else do it? Nope. But if I saw a thief attack a security guard or a cop; I would help them if they looked like they needed my help. How do you know the guard wasn’t attacked?

There is no greater gift than Brut and a pocketknife...

If they walk out with my stuff, they're gonna get their nutz sizzled.

I'm talking about people thinking it's ok to let a thief be a thief because it's not on their property or it's a corporations property. The corporation doesn't think its worth the risk because the legal system has been so corrupted that anyone and everyone can be sued over nothing. If they wouldn't face frivolous lawsuits, then maybe they would be a bit more stringent about keeping their rightful goods in their store and not watching them walkout. Stealing pennies? Those pennies add up and they are someone's pennies. Rambo wannabe? Police reject private security? renta-a-cop? cop wannabe? Sounds like a lot of people here are carrying baggage. You talk about risk/reward? Here's one for you - [b]if you risk breaking the law, you risk consequences[/b]. Also under the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" doctrine. This thief's death is [b]directly [/b]attributable to [b][i]his [/i][/b]decision to break the law. If he did not decide it was ok to steal merchandise, he would still be alive. He decided he was above the law and things spun up from there. Hoping that the thief's family sues Walmart for millions . I hope Walmart sues them for the thief's bad decision. He is the one that kicked this whole thing off. Everything that happened is a direct result of the decision he made. People think it is ok to stand there and watch a criminal flaunt the law. Remember that when someone decides to come into your house or place of business and walk out with your stuff.

A "piggy head" grenade would be crazy!!!! Habib and Ahkmed would line up to dive on it to save their buddies!!! Dave S

Ah but Obummer is SOOOOOOOOO much better than that gun-hating Romney.

Love it. I think the black bird would have been more appropriate though.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353951064' post='850833'] Security guard or simply private citizen, except in significantly extenuating circumstances, no one should be killed to protect property; most especially property that the one doing the killing doesn't even own. This thief deserved to be stopped and arrested and tried and, if found guilty he deserved to be punished but he didn't deserve to be executed. [/quote] He wasn't executed. He triggered a response and he played the game. Can't complain when it doesn't go your way. Why do we hold responders to a higher responsibility than the criminal? The criminal went in knowing what he was doing, the reponders did simply that - respond. I give them a whole lot more latitutde. This attitude is why recidivism is a given, not an anomaly.

[quote name='UncleJak' timestamp='1353937686' post='850748'] I don't believe we should kill thieves. Instead we should cut off their hands. [/quote] Touch of Islam, eh?

Well, no stampede that I heard of, but I found an interesting video of some ALMOST success! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4oV5bPeMLI

original matching numbered rifle made in 1915 for the russian army in ww1 and later captured by the finnish army. rifle has 2 civil guard unit numbers on it and sa proofed. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/NEW_039.jpg[/img]

[url="http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/"]http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/[/url] Now I don't like shoplifting but there's a limit to what employees and some police reject private security Rambo can do. I don't have very much respect for "private security" cop wannabe's, there's no real standards in training and I don't recognize any real authority they think they have. Seems that any bozo can buy a business licence that says So & So Security Co., buy a pair of dark blue pants with a stripe and a light blue shirt and pin a store bought badge on it and claim they have some authority over other people. Like I said, I give no respect to a badge unless it's issued by a city, county, state, or federal government.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353973998' post='851030'] No one is asking you to risk anything, or saying that you should do anything. A Security Guard with the help of a couple of employees was doing his job. Since we don’t know what happened I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to the Security Guard and the employees; not dirt bag thief. I know I’m really going out on a limb here, but I doubt those store employees jumped that guy and choked him out for no reason. Does Wal-Mart have a company policy that says the only shop lifters you can take into custody are those that come willingly?[/quote] You know, that's an excellent point - I had assumed (pesky word) that WM's policy was like most corporations - hands off under all circumstances. But after going back and reading through the (potentially dated) WM policies posted earlier, I'm not sure the guard did anything against WM policies. That's really the sticking point for me - if he abided by the rules of the property owner, then I don't have a problem with the result if they were simply subduing someone who had become violent after approach. I assumed (there's that word) that he had taken it upon himself to deal with this issue in a manner counter to WM's policy, and that assumption may well have been incorrect. So I'm doing something you rarely see on the internet and offering a mea culpa, at least until we know more.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352508725' post='842799'] Should they ever outlaw a specific type of weapon with no Grandfather clause, it wouldn’t be an issue of you having to explain where it went; no one would care. The issue would be when you are found to be in possession. Many of us here have thousands of dollars (some more) in weapons that would be banned. I think the “No Grandfather” discussion is to try to scare everyone into thinking they may lose all the money they have in these guns and get them to accept something that allows them to keep their arms but bans future sales. The states need to step-up. Tennessee passed the Tennessee Firearms Freedom Act, but it hasn’t been tried yet. I don’t think the Feds or the SCOTUS wants to get into a “States Rights” pizzing match. It would be ironic that the very thing that rendered the 2nd amendment pretty much useless for the individual may help everyone keep their guns. [/quote] Yup. Washington is out of control. We do have the 10th amendment. Tennessee citizens will not put up with these idiots. Hey Corker, Get with the program. Stop being a Obama kiss a$$. I think the American public have had enough of these temporary politicians.

I have carried for several years, with previous military and LE experience. Experince with a carry weapon is key, not just firing on a range, but handling on a daily basis. To the point your safety habits are ingrained.I carry at all times not at work, with a holster with good retention. I have a custom holster and a blackhawk serpa as well. No way to lose the weapon. I do not handle my weapon with the kids around as well. With 2 5-6 year old grand kids and a 2 year old neighbor around at times my safety habits are paramount. The only weapon not in the safe at all times is the one on my hip, just good common sense. I have also taught the older ones that they should never touch a weapon they see or find, get an adult. I also realize sometimes kids are curious hence all weapons are locked up, Basic weapon common sense and good second nature safety practices are the best protection. Also in some cases you may find a parent may not like the thought or idea of you carrying a weapon around their child, you will have to find the solution that best fits the particular situation. I have no family or friends that have a problem with my carry. I do have a small pistol safe where I could lock up if need be. A neighbor did have an issue a couple years ago, so I left my weapon in the safe in my truck. But after 2 trips to the range ( have our own range on our property ), their attitude did an about face. Teaching kids what a weapon is about and the safety that goes along with it is a lesson for life.

If she's really possessed you can count it as a ménage a trois.

In my best Southern drawl, "Daum Yanke", CONGRATS!!!

Interesting links above. Some thoughts I've been mulling over recently concerning possible bans, the other post regarding confiscation, etc... Since the election (or, since the first election, it could be argued) there has been an enormous run on guns of all types and calibers, as well as the ammo that feeds them. Sales have been brisk, and are moreso since the recent election. [i]A lot[/i] of people are buying guns- and a large number of them are these types of weapons that would be banned- [i]precisely[/i] out of the concern that there [i]will[/i] be some type of restriction / ban coming from DC in the near future. I think that, in many respects, the current administration has achieved in making this an even more heavily armed nation that it already was, though I'm sure that was not their intent. That said, if a ban comes down, at least in the extreme form the Dems would like for it to read- I'm curious as to how many people- recent purchasers [u]or[/u] long time owners- would actually surrender their weapons. I guess I have an internal struggle with the 'no grandfathering' clause. Again, a lot of people bought these guns/weapons for this very reason. Some would surrender them, of course, but I would be inclined to believe that an enormous amount (or maybe 'a large number' would be a better way to say it) of owners would not- at least, not voluntarily. One example- some are owned as a result of private party sales. The feds don't have a way to know how many, or where they might be. The flip side of that is, especially in states like ours, you can sell a gun you own in a private party sale, and not be required by law to report it or document it. So for all those who have bought one and have the purchase recorded by an FFL or a LGS, who's to say it hasn't been sold by the purchaser? Even if there were a threat of imprisonment for those who didnt surrender their weapons, I'm pretty sure our correctional facilities are already stretched to the max, and would not be able to accomodate 1 million (or wayyy more) fresh arrivals, statewide or nationally. Barring a thorough house-to-house search of every residence in the country by military, law enforcement, or the UN, if you wish... I don't think there would be a 'do-able' way for a thorough accounting to take place. No one has the resources to do a complete grid search of the US and all the land and property therein. Add to that that even if something like that began to occur, word of such activity would probably spread like wildfire, leading to 1) massive hiding of property by owners, or 2) possibly something more confrontational on a widespread basis. Not to mention the financial effect all this would have on businesses nationwide, but that's a whole different story.... I'm not sure how high my tin foil hat goes when it comes to a widespread 'seizure' for folks who are owners, but these are some thoughts I've been pondering since the topic is high on the minds of 2A people accross the country. Just throwing some thoughts out there- Maybe I'm totally off base.

I have to find a knife big enough to do this! haha all I have are small knifes. I might sharpen up the edge on my shovel to see what damage I can do!

[quote name='MilitiaMan' timestamp='1353963371' post='850940'] I'd like to see the employees and wannabe cop involved fired and prosecuted. Then hopefully the family of the victim sues and is awarded millions. Too much of this "power trip" crap going on in todays LE (legit or not). [/quote] Thats what needs to happen, the THIEF's family needs to be awarded money for something that idiot did wrong. I can't stand a thief, $2 or $2k it doesn't matter a thief is a thief. I don't think the security guy shoulda killed him, and I'm sure it was an accident by an untrained person, but in the end this whole thing wouldn't have happened, had that idiot not stolen something that wasn't his. Like I said in my first post. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. He stole something, and ended up dead. Saves me money from having to feed, clothe, and house his sorry ass. Good riddance.

[quote name='DaveS' timestamp='1353963374' post='850941'] A "piggy head" grenade would be crazy!!!! Habib and Ahkmed would line up to dive on it to save their buddies!!! Dave S [/quote] Just upped the awesomeness level. Outstanding!!

One of me friends showed me this clip. [url="http://www.break.com/index/man-raps-look-at-me-now-using-family-guy-voices-2390809?st=fb&ai=0&zi=0&ds=1"]http://www.break.com/index/man-raps-look-at-me-now-using-family-guy-voices-2390809?st=fb&ai=0&zi=0&ds=1[/url]

[quote name='Worriedman' timestamp='1353080595' post='846554'] He said that the fence issue was moot in his opinion as the TCA Code allowed a Citizen to enjoy the same protection with regard to using deadly force for personal protection in their vehicle as in their home.. [/quote] And that is the angle that should be taken. Screw 'parking lot' bills - simply recognize the interior of a person's car as being like the interior of a person's home. Off limits to searches by anyone but police with a proper warrant. Declare any other 'right to search' employee agreements, etc. to be null and void. Recognize that it is none of anyone else's business - including employers - what people keep in the confines of their [b]own[/b], [b]private[/b] property. It really shouldn't make a bit of difference where that private property is located at the time - in a driveway, at Walmart or in an employer's parking lot.

[img]http://i49.tinypic.com/ei095e.png[/img]

On a completely different topic, Andrea could save the doctor a lot of time and effort by explaining to him exactly what they saw at the CDC when they watched the CAT scan or whatever of a person dying then coming back as a walker. That showed, without a doubt, that (as she told him while waiting for the old man to die), "There is no unconscious mind."

[quote name='Lumber_Jack' timestamp='1353956210' post='850871'] Making an assumption; I don't believe it was the guards intent to kill the guy. We don't know what aggression the thief showed. Best way to end a fight is to choke out the opponent. Death is always a possible outcome in any fight. I feel the store or its employees has a right to confront the thief. If a fight escalates, then it becomes more than just shoplifting. [/quote] Where's ChuckieT? He sizzled a thief's junk on the hot pavement. Best takedown yet!

Welcome to the Patron State of Shootin' Stuff.

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1353952389' post='850836'] Never said this. Please quote where I said knife to the throat.[/quote] You are right, I embellished...you only said "holding a knife" although I'm not sure that "holding a knife" or "holding a knife to the throat" really changes the picture that much and the point, even less so.

It burned my eyes. haha

[img]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/318929_4593184081975_631759479_n.jpg[/img]

So did anyone notice the crooked gun barrel on the gun the guard was holding? The guard on the wall at Woodbury. I got a good laugh out of that.

I figured.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353932168' post='850732'] No we won't. [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/TourGlide/Web%20Stuff/patriot.gif[/img] [/quote] Did you run out of tin foil again? You gotta work on those prepper skills

I just finished installing CM10 beta 2 on two Epic Touch phones. If you would like a write up on all the steps I'd be happy to send you something. Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Play stupid games.... Maybe I'm just an ###hole, but looks like nothing but another dead thief to me. And we could use a lot more of those around here.

[quote name='TGO David' timestamp='1353363277' post='848409'] I don't have a budget. I'll spend whatever it takes to build a good one [/quote] change user name to TGO David Trump

[quote name='Volzfan' timestamp='1353303715' post='848045']I'll believe it when I see it! Heck go hire Franklin! Look what he's done with Vandy![/quote] Franklin will be on the secondary search list or sure. But you can bet Vol fans and alumni wouldn't be too pleased getting a Vandy coach. Regardless of his acumen, they wouldn't receive him well.

Would everyone please update their profile with guns and likes because I want to send my recipient something that I hope will be useful. I love this kind of thing and like to get as personal as possible with gifts and put some heart into it. Thanks for the cool Christmas.

[quote name='TrickyNicky' timestamp='1353112907' post='846933'] Not sure that's true for all departments... A lot of them do in fact unfortunately turn those turned in guns into scrap metal. [/quote] If you are aware of a department destroying functional firearms you need to report that to the state police and your legislator. It is a crime under state law to do so.

Frankly, I prefer realism in zombie movies.

Eh I dunno if I like the zombie ladder/knock over bus runners, just doesn't seem "zombie" like. Maybe they just seem too strong or fast, something.

[quote name='hipower' timestamp='1352562679' post='843081'] I'm beginning to have impure thoughts about these rifles. I passed by one the other day and I swear I heard it suggest going home with me to get better acquainted. [/quote] The suggestion you heard wasn't take me...it was take US...all of us. Comrade.

[quote name='TrickyNicky' timestamp='1352528388' post='842973'] Or save up the $100 or so bucks and keep your crappiest gun. I mean seriously $100 for a good shooting gun! That's insane. What's even more insane is not owning one. [/quote] I'm beginning to have impure thoughts about these rifles. I passed by one the other day and I swear I heard it suggest going home with me to get better acquainted.