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  Yep.  Huge waste of taxpayer money.  Murderers, child molsters, meth dealers?  Nah, lets go after the hunter who got the wrong license...   :shake:     I don't know about Kansas, but it sure would be nice if the licenses and regulations were simple, clear, and easy to understand.  Just yesterday I spent 10 minutes waiting in line while the clerk tried to explain to a guy that having a fishing license and a trout stamp wasn't enough.  If he wanted to fish for trout in Tellico, he also had to have a Tellico trout stamp, and it's a one-day stamp only.  I'll grant you that's not exactly rocket science, but it sure could be a lot simpler. 

I don't have a problem with the officer investigating a complaint from a citizen. He should have done that. I don't have a problem with the officer asking for his name. That's a pretty normal thing to do, but that doesn't make him entitled to an answer. Once it was evident that there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is, or is about to be commited, what was there to investigate?  In an ideal world, this whole thing should have gone something like this:    Clerk: "Officer, there's a guy with a gun in my store." Officer: "That guy over there by himself getting a Gatorade?" Clerk: "Yeah, that's him" Officer: "Did he threaten anyone" Clerk: "no...but he has a gun on his side!" Officer: "OK, sir. I'll check him out." <<walks over to Mr. Call while saying whatever it is that officers say on their radio>> Officer: "Sir, do you you have a permit for that firearm?" Call: "Sir, in Ohio I don't need a permit to openly carry a handgun." Officer: "What's your name, sir?" Call: "I don't want to give you my name and by Ohio code 2921.29  I am not required to do so unless you have reasonable suspicion that I have, am, or will commit a crime. Do you have that suspicion, and if so, what crime?" Officer: <<realizing he's being baited by a class-A douche, whose body language doesn't suggest a person who is about to knock off the Stop-N-Rob>> "No sir. Your gun made the clerk nervous. Seeing as how this is a convenience store at 4:30 am, surely you can see how that might make a clerk nervous. If you don't have a CCW permit, you may want to look into it for times and places like this. It will mean less hassle for you and we'll get less calls about stuff like this. Have a nice day." Officer to Clerk: "Sir, that gentleman is breaking no laws because openly carrying a firearm is legal in Ohio. I'll hang around here until he finishes his shopping. By the way, how fresh is that coffee?"   If the officer did indeed feel he had reasonable suspicion due to location and time of day, He should have said so to Call and said: "Sir, I do have reasonable suspicion that a person with a gun at this time of day in a convenience store may be planning to commit armed robbery. 2921.29 requires that you give me your name so I can run it. Now, what's your name, sir?"   After that, if Call's still being a giant douche, cuff him and stuff him.     What actually happened was that we had a pissing match in the parking lot between a baiting douche who stayed within the letter of the law and an officer who got all butt-hurt because there wasn't immediate acquiesence to his authora-tay. I hope Call wins the case so there are grounds for refresher training for the officers when dealing with OC in Ohio (and more case law to support his position) but that the jury awards him $1 to show their disdain for his trolling.

This is my last post on this subject. There was a COMPLAINT FILED by a citizen. The responding Officers were OBLIGATED to INVESTIGATE this COMPLAINT. As a part of that investigation the officers had to ask the man his name. If ya'll don't like that I'm sorry. We as gun owners take on a great deal of responsibility every day we step out of the house with our handguns. A small part of that responsilbility as a LAW ABIDING citizen is to cooperate with the authorities if they are investigating a complaint of MWAG. If this cannot happen with some of ya'll, leave your handguns at home you don't need them! By the way; I fought and bled for this country, I put my life on the line as a FF/EMT every single day until I retired and got back into some more work "protecting the rights" of people. I do not take kindly being refered to, or called a "STORM TROOPER". If you don't want to be questioned by the nazi's, LEAVE YOUR GUN AT HOME!!! If I'm given a job to do, I'm going to do everything within my limits and power to do that job. Even if it means asking you for "your papers". At the end of the day, I can look my boss in the eyes and say "I did my job today". How many of you people look your boss (no matter what job you have) in the eyes at the end of the day and say; "I didn't do my job today because I didn't think I had to, because there was no reason too." Good day, have fun, be safe! Dave S Thank you for confirming every concern and suspicion voiced in this thread. I won't speak for anyone else, but to paraphrase something you said, "if you don't want to be called a nazi, leave your (mental) jackboots at home." I don't think anyone really had an issue with the police initiating contact with the citizen. The issue arose when the officers used illegitimate force to improperly detain him and the threat of bogus charges to compel him to answer questions he was under no legal obligation to answer! You can ask for my papers all you want, but sometimes you have to accept that the answer is "no".

I went to the range today with a bunch of fellow members. We were all TGO members with the exception of one guy who set up at one end while I was at the other. Because space was limited on my end my wife set up next the the guy to shoot.   A few minutes later I heard my wife call out to me so I stood up and started heading her way to see what was going on. At this point I seen the guy walking towards me messing with a pistol he had in his hand. At this point my wife pointed at him. I guess he thought I was there to help because as I was walking towards my wife he stopped right in front of me and begain to vigorously mess with his pistol. It looked to be out of battery and it looked like he was trying to get the slide to go into battery. He was pushing on the rear of the slide with his palm and had the finger of his other hand in the trigger guard actually hitting the trigger. The milisecond I realized what was going on I grabbed the gun and raised the muzzle to point skyward. If he had been able to get the slide to close then the gun would have went off.   There were several people in his line of fire but the guy was standing less than 2' directly behind OhShoot. Had the gun went off it would have hit him in the back. After grabbing his hands that were holding the gun I yelled at him to quit pointing a gun at other people. He then said he had a malfunction with his handloads. I was so upset I just walked back to where I was sitting and he followed me. He said he had a malfunction and asked if I was going to help. I told him no and I did so for several reasons. First I had no tools and I honestly don't want to mess with it, second he had just flagged no less than a 1/2 dozen people and finally he acted like it was no big deal. This is what upset me the most and made sure I would not help him in any way. And when I told him I wasn't going to help he got an attitude and said "what am I supposed to do now" and I said I don't know. He then acted like a two year old throwing a temper tantrum and said "I guess I will just pack up my stuff and go". With how he acted I expected him to start stomping his feet then throw himself to the ground as if to garner even the slightest bit of sympathy for him. At this point I just ignored him because it was starting to set in what he had just done and I was afraid I would say something to incite him or I might work myself up to a point of doing something stupid.   He had just done several things that were idiotic, retarded, stupid and just plan dangerous without an apology. And all of his actions could have easily killed someone. I rarely say someone doesn't need to own gun but this guy is the poster child. He should sell every gun he owns and take up knitting because no matter how screwed up he does that it will not possibly kill someone.   My wife later told me that all this started when she noticed the guy was making a lot of fertive movements that caused her to look over at him. When she looked at him he told her he had a malfunction and flagged her as he was trying to clear it. She got loud with him and told him to keep it pointed down range.  Most of the TGO members who were there had no clue because they were focusing on shooting and doing things safe but not this idiot.   After he walked away I crouched in the corner about to throw up because of what had just happened. The adrenaline came on strong and I became nauseated. After a few minutes I was fine but it was always in the back of my mind after that. At this point OhShoot walked over and I told him he almost got shot in the back because had the gun went into battery he would have, without a doubt, shot OhShoot in the back. This idiot made what should have been an enjoyable day for me a day of worry until I left a little while later.   This came close enough to being a disaster that I can assure you I will NEVER shoot with anyone I do not know. I will leave any range anytime anyone I don't know comes in. Life is too short to have some idiot make it even shorter. Even as I write this I am getting pissed because he could have taken my wife from me as well as some of my friends.    We are getting into the shooting season guys. Please, I beg you, do whatever you can to be safe.

The full video is up.  The thug did have one or two intelligent things to say; "It's not guns killing people. It's people killing people." and "If they do pass the law you're still going to get a hold of a gun."     http://www.newschannel5.com/story/22303972/gang-members-get-guns-at-gun-shows

:blah: Yeah...well you claimed about 3 pages ago and a couple of times in the intervening pages between then and this post that it was your last post and you were leaving the thread.   But yeah...leaving is best when you don't have the facts or the law on your side. :hat:       

I’d be more than happy to have a beer and some good conversation with you someday.

  No, you drop your investigation of an MWAG call when you have no reasonable suspicion that a crime has/is/will be committed. In Ohio, being armed openly is not a crime. Period. There is no amount of suspicion of someone being openly armed (it's right there in the open...it's not really "suspicion") to warrant any forcing of compliance because there is no reasonable suspicion of a crime, because it's not a crime.   Does the LEO have reasonable suspicion that a criminal act has, is, or will occur? It's that simple.   It's reasonable to think that an actual crime (armed robbery in this case) may be about to occur given the time and location. That would not be true at say 2:00 in the afternoon when the "suspect" is seen pushing his kid down a residential street in a stroller. Either the officer on scene suspected armed robbery based on the facts at hand or he didn't. The Chief making that up as a "morning after" idea is just bull. If the LEO on scene had said as much to Mr. Call then Ohio 2912.29 clearly says that Call has to give his name, address, and DOB. I suspect Call would have complied then but I don't know that. If he would have, great it's all over. If he wouldn't have, cuff and stuff and charge him with violating Ohio 2912.29        You keep bringing up "how do I know you're not a criminal" and don't seem to understand that in Ohio, a person OC'ing is exactly the same as a person with a green shirt. You don't look at a person with a green shirt and wonder if he's legally allowed to wear that green shirt. Ridiculous, right? Opinions aside, the law in Ohio says a green shirt and an OC gun are the exact same thing. Don't like it? Tough. That's the way the law works in Ohio. Period. End of story. Chucktshoes showed case law back on post #110 that "he might be a criminal" is not enough reason to force compliance from a person who is carrying in a legal manner in a state where such carrying is legal. To force compliance in that case has been upheld to be a violation of the person's 4th ammendment rights.   In TN, it's not the same. We don't have carry laws like Ohio's OC law. I am breaking the law in TN when I carry a gun. A LEO has reasonable suspicion to think I'm breaking the law if he/she sees my gun because I am, in fact, breaking the law in TN. Our HCP system provides a defense to the crime of carrying. That means a stop to verify ID when a gun is seen is all perfectly legal here. It is not the same in Ohio for OC.   In the end, yes...in Ohio or any other place with 'Constitutional Carry' type laws, if the LEO has no reasonable suspicion of an actual crime being committed by a person who is carrying within the provisions of the law of that state and the "suspect" chooses not to provide requested information (whether done on a nice way or by telling the officer to FOAD), I expect the LEO to be a professional, forget about it, and go on about his day. He does so because his investigation is finished. It's finished, not becaause the suspect didn't comply, but because there's no reasonable suspicion of a crime to investigate. Anything else is a violation of the 4th amendment. I have a strong suspicion that the court will agree in this case, and if not, then the appellate court probably will.

So if I respond to a call for MWAG, I just drop my investigation of the complaint because the guy refuses to give me his name so I can clarify this whole matter, or forget it ever happened? Not likely Bro! And I get it just fine! I don't beleive in trumped up charges, and never have. I have said it over and over. You have said a hundred times (maybe more, maybe less) that you carry a hundgun. How do "I" know you are legal in doing so, if "I" don't ask? What do you want me to do, if you refuse to answer me? Forget about it? Not likely to happen! Dave S Dave S So what you're saying is that you are willing to break the law to make sure that I'm not breaking the law?

I understand that's your opinion (and I for one have not resorted to name calling). It just happens that your opinion and the law are not the same in this case.   Yes, Call had the ability to end this quickly by giving his name. What you don't seem to get is that that was not the only option here to end it quickly. The officer could have ended it quickly by stopping when Call refused to give his name, or by informing Call he had reasonable suspicion (and saying why) to have Call comply with the request for his name. Still no compliance? Stuff and cuff and let the court decide if the suspicion was "reasonable" or not. Instead, the officer chose to threaten a citizen with trumped up charges to get compliance.

The police went WAY to far here...most here can see that and agree; including some former LEOs; the fact that you don't seem to understand that is the troubling part I was referring to.   Demanding a person ID himself when he had absolutely ZERO obligation to do so then threatening to charge him with totally bogus charges and then actually charging him with a totally bogus charge is EXACTLY the kind of heavy-handed, unconstitutional acts that case people here to have negative feelings toward police. We have a constitution for a reason, one of which is to protect citizens from actions like the ones that came from these police officers.   A lot of people here have served in the uniform of our country, including me (I actually still do so in a minor way); a lot of people here have worked for FD/EMT, including me (except I always did so as a volunteer)...however, that service doesn't give me or you or anyone else the right to violate a citizen's fundamental rights just because a person is now wearing a LEO's badge.   I do my job well....and I get paid well for it but my job doesn't give me the awesome power to totally screw with a person's life by threatening him with bogus charges, jail time and possible legal fees to defend himself against such charges nor can I detain someone just because he "might" have done something wrong...those with that power have a HUGE responsibility to act within the law they are sworn to protect.   The only proper thing that happened here is that the matter will be settled in court which is as it should be and I think these officers and the city they work for are going to find out just how WRONG they were. The sad part of this is that the need to go to court was totally avoidable had these officers followed the rules.

I'd go with the G17 for what amounts to be a different reason than most likely have.  Let's say I was involved in a shoot (good shoot, of course) and it was kept in evidence for a fairly long time period.  Confidence in the firearms being equal for the purpose, I'd rather 'loan' my Glock to a PD to babysit for a few months than a Sig....cheaper to replace if it were 'damaged' in the process.  I carry my G19 24/7 as a tool because I'm not aesthetically attached to it.  My pretty guns are for fun.

Here's a pic of our kitchen garden.

I don't believe I would have complied with any of this based purely on the fact that they are security guards. I would have told them if they have a problem with me they better get some actual law enforcement officers to take it up with me because since I am not a prisoner they have zero authority over me. 

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!

DaveTN, After re-reading through the thread, it appears that I unfairly conflated your position with DaveS. I apologize for that. As to the question of whether or not there were other unmentioned factors that would have provided PC/RAS for his detainment by the officers that night I would venture to guess that would be unlikely for one seemingly obvious, but overlooked reason. Mr. Call seems to be an OC activist and is active on a large OC oriented forum where there is even a thread devoted to this incident. While activists of this nature are seldom persons of high regard amongst most folks here due to their provocative nature and activities, they almost universally conduct those activities in strict adherence to the letter of the law. Odds are high Mr. Call was trolling for contact and found a couple of fish more that willing to take the bait and in doing so they seem to have stepped across the line of proper behavior. As an aside- with the rise of provocative, confrontational, OC activist types across the country, it would seem prudent to me that LE agencies devote at least some training hours to ensure their officers are fully informed on how to deal with these folks so as to avoid costly lawsuits and possible court awarded payouts.

And I'm always surprised at people who think nothing bad happens at private schools. I've got no issue with private schools but there isn't any place you can stick your kids and stop paying attention.

OK, so I already own a nice Gen 2 Glock 17 and a Sig P226 in 9mm.  I shoot both equally well.  I have several spare high-cap mags for both. I have decent holsters for both.  Both have night sights.  The Sig has a milled stainless slide so rust is less of an issue than with the stamped steel slides.  In other words, I feel that these basic points are all covered and equal between the two guns.  These are the two platforms I am committed to and I feel confident that these are the two best combat handgun designs out there and the most common so parts/mags will be easier to come by.  This is not a slight to the CZ, H&K, 1911, etc.  I am also sticking with 9mm because of the capacity, its status as a standard NATO cartridge, and a common civilian cartridge.  It is more than sufficient for self-defense as long as the shooter does their part.   With all of that out of the way, here is my question and why I ask: I am of a mindset that I need to focus on training with one of these two handguns and keep the other in the safe for those days when I want to shoot it for enjoyment.  In other words, I'm trying to pick one of these two pistols to be my primary defensive pistol, the one I consistently train with, the one I shoot 3-gun with, the one I consistently carry, and be the one I would have in a SHTF or EOTWAWKI situation.  If you were faced with this conundrum (I appreciate how fortunate I am to have this conundrum), which would you go with and why?  Whichever I go with, I will very likely get the compact variant as well (Sig P225 or Glock 19).  Here is my logic so far:   Sig P226:  I carried a P229 when I was in law enforcement and I never had any issues with that pistol and I am already comfortable with the controls, maintenance, etc.  The P226 design has a long track record of durability and reliability, which it is the primary sidearm for many police agencies, military units, and special forces groups across the globe.  It's a beautiful firearm and comfortable in my hand.  There is something to be said about the traditional DA/SA trigger system for use in a defensive situation and training will help anyone overcome the challenges with the initial DA shot.  The biggest negative to this platform (AFAIK) is that the gun is less user-friendly when it comes to maintenance.  It is my understanding that the trigger is much more complex than in a Glock and in an EOTWAWKI situation, I don't know how easily I would be able to keep it running if I had any issues.  Armorers are hard to come by now, much less if the world goes all to crap.   Glock 17:  I know all of the benefits of the Glock and it's track record and I know that the majority of people consider it a slightly less accurate design overall, but still more than accurate enough for defensive carry.  The reasons I am thinking about the Glock is because of the simple design (fewer small parts make for a more reliable platform in most cases), and the ability for a minimally knowledgeable person to completely detail strip the pistol with a single handheld punch is a huge benefit.  If I did need an armorer, they seem to be a dime a dozen and getting into an armorer's school is much easier and cheaper than the Sig armorer's school.  It seems that spare parts are much easier to come by, are pretty much interchangeable between Glock pistols, and since they are so darn common, it would be pretty easy to scrounge up parts if I ever needed to.  The function of the pistol is so simple that I feel as if I could hand it to my wife or kids and tell them how to use it with very minimal training.  In short, it seems the Glock 17 is much more in line with the K.I.S.S. philosophy, which is likely to be extremely important in a SHTF scenario.  My overall experience with the Glock is very limited, so I've not shot one enough to fall in love with it like I have the Sig design.  If I settle on this choice, I am strongly considering trading it in towards a Gen 3 to gain the accessory rail in case I ever want to add a tactical light.   So with all of that said I am leaning towards the Glock, but I wonder if I am being too critical of the Sig I love so dearly.  I know; go with the one that feels more comfortable to shoot.  Like I said, I am equally comfortable and shoot just as well with either and any deficiencies with either platform would be overcome with the dedicated training I want to commit to the pistol.  What say my fellow TGO members?

  You can tell a felon by looking at him? Remarkable talent.   - OS

Kids are amazing. My daughter will be 2 in July. Yesterday i witnessed her pick up my wifes iphone, press the unlock button, use the slide unlock on the screen, scroll through the pages until she found the gallery, launch it and then showed off pictures of us to everyone in the room and called us by name.   meanwhile my 6 year old thinks brushing his teeth is "boring".   sigh...

We have the beginnings of a site on facebook.  Our site is ORSA-uspsa.  Some Videos from the May match, showing the promised perfect weather, are up at that site.  More to come!

Agreed to an extent, however once the "suspect" (for lack of a better term) declined to give his name & refused to answer any questions (which was his right) the officers should have parted company & went on about their merry way, seeing as how they had no reasonable suspicion that a crime had been committed or was about to be committed. But instead they got a bug up their butt & decieded to teach this guy a lesson, filing false charges and such. Anyway how does Mexican sound? I know a great mexican restaurant in Covington that we could hit where everything on the menu is simply outstanding.

Termites like to get under concrete, rocks and such. Concentrate on those areas around that deck as well as the house foundation.

DaveS, Although we've never met in person I've become rather fond of you from our interactions on this forum. I think that you are one heck of a good guy & I'd be honored to share a meal or some beers with you some time. That said ... You are absolutely wrong about this, under no circumstance were the officers in this story "right" about any thing they did from the first moment that they first recieved the MWAG complaint, to the moment where they filed false charges against the guy. Listen man I appreciate what our law enforcement officers have to deal with day-in-day-out, I got a little taste of it myself as both a reserve deputy (MCSD) & as a metro officer (IUPD) while I was working my way through college. We all want the bad guys to be caught, but we also want our Constitutional protections to be upheld, the balancing point has got to be at the individual officer level, too many officers have the attitude "let the courts figure it out" and are simply to quick to detain &/or arrest. This is especially true if any "attitude" is given to them, regardless if any violations of any ordinances or statutes have occured or not. Which this incident appears to be a great example of.

Boy howdy!! A hunter and fisherman can be asked anything you want and that's OK. Ask a man his name when he open carries and buddy it's hell on wheels game on!!!   Our justice system needs a serious overhauling razorback!   Dave S

There is no wrong answer here.  I have the Sigs and the Glocks (gen2).  To me, the Sigs are just like the best looking girl in school, and are absolutely fun to be with, and will get the job done too if you know what I mean.  However, the Glocks are just Glocks, not the prettiest little thing, but are fun to be with, and will get the job done too.  My Sigs, if they were to accidently fall to the ground, I always inspect them.  My glocks fall, I don't care, and just carry on.  So my answer to your dilemma is Yes, and I will leave it at that.

Watched the video a few times.  Seconds before the robber came around the corner, a 2-door car pulls up and appears to stop just the other side of the corner.  My guess is the shop owner was aware the car stopped and a car door opened.  Shop owner put hiis handside the window, could not tell if it were a gun, but diffentialy, he noticed something was not right.    It does go to show that when something goes down, it can be very quick.

Does it 1/3 cowitness with your iron sights?

Yeah. I wish he would have used his homey grip. :)

Where's Enfield? He'll teach you how to shoot those sumbitches out of the sky with your trusty revolver :)

  After that, I think I need a napkin....

CS Espada vis a vis Beretta 92FS. BIG knife. So disappointed the 4" limit wasn't nuked. :down: - OS

It is legal with a permit Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

Because Gen 2 Glocks have the Tenifer treatment unlike the ones today. They also have milled parts  that are not MIM parts that Glock is now doing for the extractors and such today. Also I like the Gen 2's because they do not have finger grooves. Also , dependng on what year you have , the Gen 2's have are a " 2 pin" gun instead of a 3 pin gun . This is even less parts. To me it is just an all around better pistol.

I pick the Glock 17 . It's fewer parts , the fact that anyone can detail strip it and parts are everywhere. Also it is very simple , just pull the the trigger and it shoots. NO safety's nor extra gadgets nor levers.  If you have ever used a Glock to defend your life , you will know what I mean. Since I made the decision to go with Glock , it makes the other pistols looks so bad. The others have so many springs and levers and this and that. Too much to go wrong . Plus Glock has a very good rust resistance . Also the GLock 17 Gen 2 is the best Glock in my opinion.  I can take my Glock 17 Gen 2 and drop it while loaded on assphalt or concrete . It will not malfunction nor discharge unless I pull the trigger. 

As far as defensive rounds... 9mm- 200 rounds of HST 124 grn .40- 150 rounds of HST 180 grn 12 guage- about 300 rounds of just Remington (green/yellow box) 00 buckshot

Considering going full geek with a full on cowboy rig.

Yes, because of that pesky jerk exception to the bill of rights :)  If a police officer can't handle law abiding citizens being annoyed or rude during situations where no laws are being broken, if they can't be professional enough to walk away from those situations...  who is really at fault in these situations, the 'rude' citizen? No.   If a police officer can't remain professional at name calling, colorful language, or just people being rude and legally refusing to answer questions, then maybe that person isn't professional enough to be a police officer.    

As I go for socks,yes..socks..and my Kenny`s Campstew seasoning..I look at it as a"indoor fleamarket" :)   Husband and I go to socialize,maybe find a good deal and spend the afternoon out of the house.. And no one is holding a gun to our heads and is forcing us to buy anything.. so..its an afternoon well spend:)   Someone need sto start a website called " People of Gunshows " Seems some didnt go to Wal-mart and ended up at the gunshow ...lol

Yet another reason why I shoot at home.

Triple Digit....its worth $300...I'll be right over!!!!!!

Just signed on as a dealer. Will post in the classifieds when the first stocking order comes in.

If you consider being detained, questioned, background checked & having your personal property destroyed as being "treated with respect" than yea I suppose so ...

Looking good, my friend! What range are you shooting at?

Because we ALL are presumed innocent........ even LEO are suppose to know that

Good choice, and the BEST mag loader in the world.

I think Hoarding is what people do after an ammo crisis begins. Stocking is the same thing, just before the ammo crisis begins. I wouldn't put a number on it because it all depends on what you are "stocking" for. Are you stocking for going to the range or for resisting the placemet in DHS internment camps?

"Reckless inconvenience"? That a real charge?   In all seriousness Mr. Call must be related to Leonard Embody.   Yeah, I invoked it. :)

Brought this up with my liberal in laws while they were visiting. They could care less, and they believe this is all just a smear campaign by the evil conservatives. Obama could kill and eat a baby on live television and at least 1/3 of this country wouldn't care or figure out how to blame it on Republicans. At least half this country doesn't care about these very abuses taking place. While I'm all about giving a corrupt politician a black eye when it's warranted, I fear the only thing to come of this will be vindication for those who knew this was taking place all along.

[quote name='Victor9er' timestamp='1336757560' post='756762'] Boy you got us there.... Funny how no one posts crap like that on an M&P thread, or a XD thread, or a Taurus, or a Ruger, or a Sig, or any other semi that uses that same "tupperware" frame.... [/quote] Funny how if it was posted in an M&P, XD, Taurus, Ruger, or Sig thread people would think that it was funny and probably not cry about it. I don't know, perhaps it historically hurts deeper since Glock came up with tupperware frames. I've owned two Glocks before and now I carry tupperware myself in the form of an M&P. I'm sorry you can't take a joke. Great thread, keep the photos coming!