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I hope he gets so much money they think twice about pulling that stunt again.

[quote name='Spots' timestamp='1354771453' post='855616']As I said before, the man who is gonna shoot you at a traffic stop isn't gonna show you his hcp, and let you take his weapon. [/quote] [quote name='Spots' timestamp='1354771453' post='855616'] To bad [u][b]most officers [/b][/u]will never have to answer for their reasons for doing most of what they do. I may seem jaded or upset, but I've seen one to many police officers [u][b]flip on lights to run the red[/b][/u], speed to nowhere in the cruiser that they drive home on the tax payers dime, and basically abuse the power given to them by the citzen. This is not meant as a blanket statement and I have the utmost respect for those honest LEO's who don't take an oppurtunity to step on your toes when they get the chance. But I have the utmost contempt for those that do things because they can, not because they should. And I will not support officers who do such things, including disarming an honest citzen who has done nothing wrong, [u][i][b]just so the officer can get a warm and fuzzy[/b][/i][/u]. [/quote] This is probably a waste of time, but here is my two cents anyway. How do you know what a person is going to do on a traffic stop? Because I’ve done thousands of them and I don’t know. Go work the streets with a cop and let us know if you think their discretion should be taken away. I had a couple come in and make a complaint on me because I turned on my overheads, blew a light, shut them off and continued on normally. They called me in and had me explain to them why I did it and played them back the communications tape. They were embarrassed at the results and apologized for making accusations. Unfortunately you don’t always know what’s causing what you see. You see it and assume the worst; others (like me) see it and give the cops the benefit of the doubt. I openly support my local Police Officers, Troopers, and Deputies and appreciate the job they do. [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/TourGlide/Web%20Stuff/patriot.gif[/img]

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1354826927' post='856009'] You missed what I was saying. As a trainer. I'm not going into combat with anybody.[/quote] Oh, ha, I thought you were talking about what he did in a previous life. I will say though, I would prefer a reserved, yet confident instructor as opposed to a loud mouth, self aggrandizing tool. The tool act works fine with folks that don't know any better, but is annoying as hell and a distraction to training for those that do.

Had the OP told the LEO "No" when asked if he had a firearm, would the LEO have dragged him out of the car and frisked him, or would he likely have gone on about his business? Since the OP was honest about it, I wouldn't expect him to be much of a threat. You all can cheerlead for law enforcment all you want, but I see this as nothing but intimidation.

[quote name='1morethan8' timestamp='1354835566' post='856083']Many of you may not know this, but believe me... some will. A soldier(or veteran) who runs his mouth telling everyone who will listen... just how smart they are, how bad ass they are, how many they've killed, how rough of a time they had,or how great they are... are total BS!! I know this for a fact. The ones who are the "real deal" don't say a word... because they don't have to. They want to forget... but can't.[/quote] "No sh**, there I was, in the Valley of Nodangtwat, surrounded by 3,000 Taliban fighters and all I had was an MRE spoon... Was I scared? You're damn right I was scared.... scared one of those little bastards would get away!" Seemed appropriate for this thread.

Many of you may not know this, but believe me... some will. A soldier(or veteran) who runs his mouth telling everyone who will listen... just how smart they are, how bad ass they are, how many they've killed, how rough of a time they had,or how great they are... are total BS!! I know this for a fact. The ones who are the "real deal" don't say a word... because they don't have to. They want to forget... but can't.

I don't think I would let him out of the bedroom. Breathing that is. In all honesty, I'd probably be so freaked out by a stranger standing in my bedroom that I'd pee my pants and go all screaming monkey on him and try to push his eyes out through his ear canals with my thumbs. (We're talking 28 weeks later style here) Then if I had the presence of mind to get my gun I would. And no I don't mean that in a rambo way. I mean it in a so friggin scared that I might not remember what I was doing way.

At some point in a guy's life... it comes down to this. Four guys have been going to the same fishing trip for many years. Two days before the group is to leave, Ron's wife puts her foot down and tells him he isn't going. Ron's mates are very upset that he can't go, but what can they do. Two days later the three get to the camping site only to find Ron sitting there with a tent set up,firewood gathered, and dinner cooking on the fire. 　 "Dang Ron, how long you been here, and how did you talk your missus into letting you go?" 　 "Well, I've been here since yesterday evening. I was sitting in my chair and my wife came up behind me and put her hands over my eyes and said, "Guess who?" I pulled her hands off, and she was wearing a brand new see through nightie. She took my hand and pulled me to our bedroom. 　 The room had candles and rose petals all over. On the bed she had handcuffs, and ropes! She told me to tie and cuff her to the bed, and I did. And then she said, "Do whatever you want." So, Here I am. Who wants a beer? __________________

Said it before and I'll say it again - LEOs disarming citizens who have given them no reason to think they are murderers just so they can "feel safe" is not about safety at all... it's about power and control.

Anyone who can manage the finances of a small business successfully has the ability to understand national economics. Where it gets complicated is that politicians are always seeking one thing; power. In order to get and keep that power they want to be able to buy votes without having any negative consequences. Since most of them are lawyers, they are used to playing games with words and concealing the facts. Economically, here are the facts: 1) We are broke. We spend more money than we take in. Raising taxes on the rich won't change that, even if you declare that $75,000 a year income makes you 'rich'. 2) The US dollar is backed only by faith. If folks quit believing that it is worth something, it won't be worth anything. Right now, the Fed is creating dollars from thin air. If they didn't, the US debt would be MUCH higher than the current more than $16 Trillion dollars. 3) The current US Gross Domestic Income is only $15 Trillion. In other words, if you add up ALL of the money made by EVERY person, corporation, and company in the country in a whole year, it adds up to less money than the government owes right now. 4) The only way out of this is to CUT spending. A LOT! You can talk about waste, military, etc, but they won't solve the problem. the problem is entitlements. They make up over 50% of Federal spending, and are growing at a horrendous pace. 5) Politicians do NOT want to cut spending. Especially entitlements. That's the case, plain and simple. Either we reduce entitlements (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Welfare, etc), or we all go down.

Tomorrow is the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor. I only bring this up as I would like to honor my uncle "Thomas Lowery" who served on the submarine USS Sunfish during WWII and passed away last summer. My uncle Tommy whom raised me, was aboard the Sunfish that fateful day. When the Japanese attacked, the Sunfish (whom was entering the harbor) submerged in the shallow water and turned seaward in search of the Japanese fleet. The Sunfish engaged the Jap fleet and when running out of torpedoes, surfaced and engaged the enemy with a 50 cal machine gun and what my uncle called a 3" inch deck gun. A funny story he told me was when a Soviet Destroyer put up the Japanese flag and cruised right on into Tokyo Bay. The Sunfish went to Tokyo to attack the Jap fleet. Well, they encountered the russian cruiser flying the jap flag and sent two "fish" into the russian ship. Needless to say Ivan got pissed and wanted us to pay for the ship they lost. Such is war my friend!!! I found that story pretty funny! I miss my uncle dearly, but would like to honor ALL the veterans buried in the choppy waters of the South Pacific! Bless you all! Dave S

Obama won a second term.

hats off too the greatest generation in the history of the USA!

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1354810426' post='855877'] Cocky isn't a bad trait in what he does for a living. [/quote] Absolutely it is a bad trait. Not that I think of him as anything more that a war tourist, if I found myself in a situation where he would be the person watching my back I would would rather sit and watch radios. His attitude is the epitome of douchey tough guy which is what gets people killed; either because he discovers he isn't as tough as he thinks he is when the metal starts flying, or he does stupid stuff to get his fight on. He is bad news. Trust me, I've dealt with his kind before. They are dangerous in a combat zone.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1354809066' post='855864'] It never ceases to amaze me how people who don't know James, hasn't trained with James or even met him know SO much about him. Funny how that works. [/quote] I [b][i]really[/i][/b] don't have a dog in this hunt, but I feel compelled to point out that the reason folks know SO much about him is because James has apparently made it his mission for this to be the case. If he wanted anonymity he wouldn't be posting any of this crap on the Internet. Like I said, he is keenly aware that there is no such thing as bad publicity. Any uproar involving him on any message board, YouTube, etc. just spikes his Google search relevancy which drives traffic to his web site which drives money into his bank account. The guy [i]truly [/i]gets it and is making bank off of the people who post bad things about him online. Every time Yeager's name is mentioned, a weekend warrior gets his wings.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1354819886' post='855959'] Saying it over and over doesn't make it true. [/quote] Denying it doesn't make it false.

[img]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/74195_10200146042075782_1614365776_n.jpg[/img]

Some people are going to complain about LEO no matter how good of a job they did. Dolomite

So....the OP posts about a GOOD experience where the LEO acted within his discretion and within the law but people still find reason to complain??? I guess there just aren't enough examples where LEO's didn't act responsibly and appropriately for people to complain about.

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1354802463' post='855811']What do you think is going to happen? Is the cop going to shoot you at random after he disarms you? Or at that exact moment will you be attacked by a roving band of baddies who decided to attack you with a cop standing there? I understand ideologies, but why get bent about this? I don't get it.[/quote] I don't get too bent up about this one, but I don't agree with this being a standard operating procedure; that is to say I don't believe that a person should be disarmed and have their serial run every time they have an LEO encounter. One reason is based in principle. Yes, it is the officers discretion, but the law says he must have reasonable fear for his or your safety. I believe this is intentionally left vague so that officers can exercise discretion. I think that's great, but I don't agree with that being abused. I would say that it was not the intention of the law to have officers ALWAYS disarm and HCP holder. The other issue I have with that is safety. I don't like handing a person a loaded weapon. I further don't want someone handling MY loaded weapon and unloading it if they have no idea how it works. This is how accidents happen. Not all officers are knowledgeable of ALL firearms and how to safely unload them. For example, I have several LEOs in my family. At the reunion this year we were all on the property shooting, and my cousin (who has been a city cop for 4 years) tried to handle a 1911. I'm convinced that if I handed him a loaded 1911 and told him to unload it he would shoot himself or, at a minimum, have a ND. Just my thoughts on it. If an officer told me to make it safe or simply moved it to another part of the car I would have no issue. I want the officer to feel safe as can be, but not at the expense of proper rights or gun safety.

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]People loose their minds all the time. Just because someone has a HCP doesn't mean they won't flip out and do something rash. We have read about it dozens of times on here where a HCP holder does something stupid. And as an officer if they can do something to prevent injuries to anyone it is a good thing.[/font][/color][/quote] I agree that HCP holders are not immune to rash thinking and foolish actions. However, there have also been many instances of officers thinking rashly and acting foolishly. Not to mention that there are many stories of officers handling civilians' firearms dangerously while disarming. I am always very respectful to LEO's and fully understand that their top priority is their safety and getting home to their family. But just because they want to get home to their family does not mean that everything is justifiable for them to achieve this. Approaching all vehicles with their gun drawn and then handcuffing your hands to the steering wheel would greater insure that they get home safely, but I feel doing so would be greatly frowned upon. I'm not one that would or will make an issue or scene if this were to happen to me. I would comply, and do so very politely. It is just something that bothers me internally that it is even an issue. I suppose the root of what bothers me is that officers (arguably) have to be in the state of mind that they are. Perhaps it is mostly due to the world we live in, or perhaps it is mostly due to training, but the fact that an officer fears his life is in danger over a petty traffic stop bothers me. I understand that many times it is a traffic stop in which your hard criminals are caught. But I like the stories in which the officer is relieved to find out that the driver is a HCP holder much more than the stories in which the officer feels it necessary to disarm someone.

[quote name='bkelm18' timestamp='1354793274' post='855772'] So are there law abiding citizen bumper stickers that we can put on our cars that make it so officers know that we're cool beans? If they want to disarm you to get a warm fuzzy, they're going to do it. If you don't like it, stop complaining and write your Congress critters to get the law changed. [/quote] Don't worry I do. And my big thing is more the fact that the guy who qill do aomething bad is gonna have the gun in his lap at the traffic stop. When the officer steps up that'll be the end of it. All those warm and fuzzies that he gets from someone who has done everything right will do nothing but provide false security. I know the man just wants to make it home. But there are always safer jobs. Nobody makes you become a police officer, just like nobody made me sign up for the USMC. I support my local LEO's, and appreciate what they do. But at the end of the day, you are still a civil servant that works for the citizens, not above them.

[quote name='Oh Shoot' timestamp='1354770535' post='855608'] TN law gives him the right, and the reason is his call. - OS [/quote] To bad most officers will never have to answer for their reasons for doing most of what they do. I may seem jaded or upset, but I've seen one to many police officers flip on lights to run the red, speed to nowhere in the cruiser that they drive home on the tax payers dime, and basically abuse the power given to them by the citzen. This is not meant as a blanket statement and I have the utmost respect for those honest LEO's who don't take an oppurtunity to step on your toes when they get the chance. But I have the utmost contempt for those that do things because they can, not because they should. And I will not support officers who do such things, including disarming an honest citzen who has done nothing wrong, just so the officer can get a warm and fuzzy.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty close to the truth. My wife got on to me so I just started peeing in the shower.

Guys: Just thinking about the possibility of having a legal seminar to discuss the following: 1. General self-defense legal issues; 2. Aftermath issues; 3. Evidence and jury issues; 4. Hiring an attorney; 5. Hiring experts; and 6. Potential civil suits. Might add another topic or two if people really want to hear information on another topic. This would be held in Franklin (most likely), but would be a free event. I also promise not to make it an infomercial. Really just gearing this toward expanding knowledge of TGO members. If you have any interest, please let me know. Probably would do this on a Saturday (or possibly a Sunday afternoon). If there's sufficient interest, might do it a couple of times.

Phil Valentine said it elloquently yesterday. He asked if guns are bad, why do we give police officers guns? I just can't wrap my head around the theory that anyone with a gun can suddenly go crazy and start shooting people; anybody, that is, but an LEO.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1354818413' post='855941'] Good story. I can't say that the homeowner following the guy out of the house was a smart move...pretty dumb actually when you consider all the possible consequences, but I'm glad they caught the guy. Thank God for stupid criminals! [/quote] Different state, different laws... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy Texas doesn't play around with self defense laws... It's very dangerous to be a criminal there, TN should take a lesson and toughen up some of our property crime laws to allow the use of deadly force... We'd see a sharp decline in crime if we did.

So you're suggesting that having a masters degree in art studies with a speciality in oil canvas between 1453-1455 isn't as useful as someone with 10 years of machining experience?

[quote name='graycrait' timestamp='1354842933' post='856156'] I picked up a pair of Sig 239s, a 10/22 with a 16.5" threaded barrel and two bottles of wine in a trade. ...[/quote] A box of cigars and you'd have won the ATF trifecta. - OS

That's like the Bob & Tom skit where two shipping companies merged. The Norfolk company and Way industries merged to make ...."Norfolk & Way" Can I get this box shipped? Norfolk & Way!

Do they even teach Pearl Harbor in schools anymore? I'd like to go to Hawaii and see the memorial, before the Arizona just dissipates, which it one day will, then there'll be nothing left.

Maybe one of them will sing, if he can avoid um ... "committing suicide". - OS

Karma [img]http://www.spiritual-knowledge.net/images/karma.gif[/img]

There are no local hog hunting except a limited number of WMA's. All the landowners around with hogs are collecting big bucks from hunters to hunt hogs. In my opinion it's worse now than when hunting hogs was allowed! Land owner's seen a way to make money year round and are cashing in on it! Good luck on your search! Dave S

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1354802001' post='855807'] So, he made a video to counter claims of him being a coward? Will he now make a video to counter claims that he is a flaming douche-tard, or is there enough substantiated evidence of that to prevent an argument? [/quote] TGO David nailed it. Douche-tard or not, did we spell his name right?

[quote name='Oh Shoot' timestamp='1354770535' post='855608'] TN law gives him the right, and the reason is his call. - OS [/quote] Very true. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if I were an officer. My primary goal would be -- as I am sure it is theirs -- to go home to my family at the end of my shift.

[quote name='Daniel' timestamp='1354771363' post='855615'] It has been more than some"one." I agree with Pole a few posts up. I have seen the video and besides the neutral bit which really doesnt matter in the end as the other two vehicles were mobility kills from the start his actions at the time werent the problem. It was the after the fact #### talking dead guys. [/quote] They were definitely in the killzone of a rehearsed ambush. Putting the lead car in neutral was fail one IMO. IIRC from the report, what was really scathing was the AAR/report saying that Yeager broke contact by himself without the element establishing some sort of fire superiority. He then positioned himself in such a manner that he was unable to effectively render supporting fires for his element (proned out on the median). He self admittedly had no idea where the contact was coming from and didn't do anything to address this. The other team members had to identify the distance, direction, and descriptions. Again, IMO - it's not that he ####ed up. That happens. Its the stuff that happened after the fact that damned him in many eyes. I don't MMQB guys in combat. I understand that things go sideways, sometimes in the worst way. But we need to be brutally self honest in the AAR's.....not passing the buck onto dead men. But Yeager will continue to be Yeager

I can't stand the man. His abrasive, cocky attitude rubs me the wrong way, and is the exact opposite of what I expect from a professional. Coward or not, hes still a pot stirring ass with an attitude problem.

It has been more than some"one." I agree with Pole a few posts up. I have seen the video and besides the neutral bit which really doesnt matter in the end as the other two vehicles were mobility kills from the start his actions at the time werent the problem. It was the after the fact #### talking dead guys.

[quote name='Spots' timestamp='1354770238' post='855606'] Sounds like he was professinal. That said,[b] he has no reason, nor right[/b] to disarm anyone who is in legal possession of a handgun with an HCP. [/quote] TN law gives him the right, and the reason is his call. - OS

Sounds like he was professinal. That said, he has no reason, nor right to disarm anyone who is in legal possession of a handgun with an HCP. If he conducted a search due to probable cause, and you didn't have an HCP then yes. He is a public servant, not an overlord or sheepdog. Sorry for the rant, it just gets on my nerves that any police officer thinks hes safer by disarming the man who openly discloses that he has a weapon and an hcp. The guy whos gonna shoot him at a trarfic stop isn't gonna tell him he has the gun beforehand.

I tend to judge people on two things... 1. What they've done (not rumors about what they've done but what is actually known as fact), and 2. Who they hang around with (and by default who is willing to hang around them) I've read the official published report on the "incident" James mentioned, and the only people who seem to have a problem with James weren't there, don't know him and haven't trained with him. Further, when people like Tom Givens chooses to train with James and James has been invited to teach at Range Masters and at Thunder Ranch (with Clint Smith) (at least if I remember correctly) I'd say he is in pretty good company. Folks like Tom Givens and Clint Smith don't invite cowards to train at their facilities.

[quote name='Oh Shoot' timestamp='1354743593' post='855392'] Nonetheless, they are being "diluted" by the GOP, and have less decision making power. Committees are "where it's at" in all legislatures. Anything that doesn't get out of committee can't affect change. And of course, the real power is wielded during elections, so the "naughty" list will get no GOP support, and indeed likely will be sabotaged behind the scenes every two years. I've maintained since its inception that the Tea "Party" will have to become an [i]actual[/i] third Party to affect real change. The GOP, even if it becomes only the "loyal opposition" for the next 20 years or more, will not be changed by true conservatives. - OS [/quote]I've been consistently opposed to the Tea Party becoming another actual political party but I am starting to think that doing so may be the only way to effect real change and save the country. That's assuming, of course, there is anything left to save...with the country's present spending and debt I don't think we have a lot of time left.

[quote name='MississippiBoy' timestamp='1354736983' post='855331'] They already state that non-student adults can have a firearm in their car on campus, why exclude schools from this issue. [/quote] Why should those schools be able to terminate employees for being in compliance with that law? Especially those who take state assistance. You know, [i]your[/i] money. Why should adult students not be able to do the same? Why should a student or non-student HCP holder not be able to have loaded firearm kept in vehicle? - OS

Tells you something about the importance of shot placement. Two .40 S&W rounds into a puppy and it survived.

If Piers is going to engage in a battle of wits, maybe next time he should come armed, but he probably should avoid doing so with people who are his intellectual superior, like Ms. Roth. You go, girl!

Poose Morgan needs to take his liberal, pansy, anti-gun ass back to England. I HATE that guy.

[quote name='LagerHead' timestamp='1354633709' post='854736'] Great reference. [/quote] I have used that for years. Most people don't know it. SO, yesterday was Daryl's day, today.....Kings to you! [i]How did I escape? With difficulty. How did I plan this moment? With pleasure. [/i]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1354568558' post='854387'] F-troop is the BATFE, so named for their habit of screwing up everything they touch. The Fibbies are the FBI, known for burning people alive and shooting women holding infants. [/quote] As Tom Givens calls them, the Federal Bureau of Incineration and Burn All Toddlers First. He said that in a class one time and I busted out laughing.

Just when I started to hate cops, they go and do that. I am sure that police do these acts of kindness alot more than anyone will ever know, they just dont film it.