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I don't think of this board as an "open market," like Gunbroker, Armslist, etc. I see us as a community of brethren. I personally find it shameful that any of us would try to take advantage of each other. If you wish to sell for a premium, which is absolutely your right to do so, I would want to do it outside our community.   As the old song says, "If you're gonna cheat on me, don't cheat in our home town."

As my Scottish relatives were prone to say... Jesus Murphy.  :wall:   I already posted about this elsewhere so I don't think we really need another thread about this.  Here's what I said then, and what I'm saying now as the "Official Word" on this topic, after which point I am closing the thread:   http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/56695-when-is-it-going-to-be-ok-to-sale-magsammoand-ars-for-the-going-rate/#entry865843         Folks, tensions are high enough as is among the pro-2A community right now.  The last thing we need to do is start fighting among ourselves over pricing of things here or elsewhere.  Supply of previously plentiful items has dried up.  Retail prices have climbed.  Private sale prices have climbed.  Some pricing has climbed into the stratosphere.   If you were well stocked to begin with, you probably don't care.  If you weren't, then you probably do and you probably regret the lack of preparation and regret the high prices.  Hindsight is the mother of all bitches sometimes and this would definitely be one of them.  Were I short on ammo, short on mags or short on black rifles, I'd be a bit upset as well, but my anger would be directed at myself.  Trust me; there are a few rifles I'd still like to own and assumed I'd have plenty of time to pick them up in the future.  I'm kicking myself, but I'm not pissed at the world or pissed at the people who had more foresight than I did.   I don't even believe it is morally or ethically wrong for people to make a profit on these things now.  Why should it be?  It's no more wrong for them to do that than it is for me to turn a profit on shares of Apple, Inc. stock when the market is strong.  These things are all commodities at the end of the day, and right now it's a seller's market.   The truth hurts sometimes.  Sorry.   My advice for folks is to just band together the best we can and stop taking pot shots at people for "buying low and selling high".  It's their prerogative to do it, and frankly a lot of these people are going to feel like world class morons when the market tanks and they barely brake even... or worse yet Swinestein gets her way and bans the hell out of everything this side of a slingshot, and these fools suddenly realize that the $5,000 they pocketed selling that AR-15 isn't worth the now-irreplaceable AR-15 that they sold.   Hopefully some of these items will start reappearing in stores before Congress gets a chance to fuck us in 2013.  If you see a rifle or other item that you can afford in the stores between now and then, you'd be a complete fool not to jump on it.  You may not get that chance again if the assclowns our country has elected get their way.       /thread

Just saw this on FB.  Thought it was funny so I figured I'd share.   Everyone should start carrying $2 bills! I'm STILL laughing!! ♥ Like & Share ♥ READ THIS... I think we need to quit saving our $2 bills and bring them out in public. The younger generation doesn't even know they exist! STORY: On my way home from work, I stopped at Taco Bell for a quick bite to eat. I have a $50 bill and a $2 bill. I figure with the $2 bill, I can get something to eat and not have to worry about irritating anyone for trying to break a $50 bill. Me: 'Hi, I'd like one seven-layer burrito please, to go.' Server: 'That'll be $1.04. Eat in?' Me: 'No, it's to go.' At this point, I open my billfold and hand him the $2 bill. He looks at it kind of funny. Server: 'Uh, hang on a sec, I'll be right back.' He goes to talk to his manager, who is still within my earshot. The following conversation occurs between the two of them: Server: 'Hey, you ever see a $2 bill?' Manager: 'No. A what?' Server: 'A $2 bill. This guy just gave it to me...' Manager: 'Ask for something else. There's no such thing as a $2 bill.' Server: 'Yeah, thought so.' He comes back to me and says, 'We don't take these. Do you have anything else?' Me: 'Just this fifty. You don't take $2 bills? Why? Server: 'I don't know.' Me: 'See here where it says legal tender?' Server: 'Yeah.' Me: 'So, why won't you take it?' Server: 'Well, hang on a sec.' He goes back to his manager, who has been watching me like I'm a shoplifter, and says to him, 'He says I have to take it.' Manager: 'Doesn't he have anything else?' Server: 'Yeah, a fifty. I'll get it and you can open the safe and get change. Manager: 'I'm not opening the safe with him in here.' Server: 'What should I do?' Manager: 'Tell him to come back later when he has real money.' Server: 'I can't tell him that! You tell him.' Manager: 'Just tell him.' Server: 'No way! This is weird. I'm going in back. The manager approaches me and says, 'I'm sorry, but we don't take big bills this time of night.' Me: 'It's only seven o'clock! Well then, here's a two dollar bill.' Manager: 'We don't take those, either.' Me: 'Why not?' Manager: 'I think you know why.' Me: 'No really, tell me why.' Manager 'Please leave before I call mall security.' Me: 'Excuse me?' Manager: 'Please leave before I call mall security.' Me: 'What on earth for?' Manager: 'Please, sir..' Me: 'Uh, go ahead, call them.' Manager: 'Would you please just leave?' Me: 'No.' Manager: 'Fine -- have it your way then.' Me: 'Hey, that's Burger King, isn't it?' At this point, he backs away from me and calls mall security on the phone around the corner. I have two people staring at me from the dining area, and I begin laughing out loud, just for effect. A few minutes later this 45-year-oldish guy comes in. Guard: 'Yeah, Mike, what's up?' Manager (whispering): 'This guy is trying to give me some (pause) funny money.' Guard: 'No kidding! What?' Manager: 'Get this. A two dollar bill.' Guard (incredulous): 'Why would a guy fake a two dollar bill?' Manager: 'I don't know. He's kinda weird. He says the only other thing he has is a fifty.' Guard: 'Oh, so the fifty's fake!' Manager: 'No, the two dollar bill is.' Guard: 'Why would he fake a two dollar bill?' Manager : 'I don't know! Can you talk to him, and get him out of here?' Guard: 'Yeah.' Security Guard walks over to me and...... Guard: 'Mike here tells me you have some fake bills you're trying to use.' Me: 'Uh, no.' Guard: 'Lemme see 'em.' Me: 'Why?' Guard: 'Do you want me to get the cops in here?' At this point I'm ready to say, 'Sure, please!' but I want to eat, so I say, 'I'm just trying to buy a burrito and pay for it with this two dollar bill. I put the bill up near his face, and he flinches like I'm taking a swing at him. He takes the bill turns it over a few times in his hands, and he says, Guard: 'Hey, Mike, what's wrong with this bill?' Manager: 'It's fake.' Guard: 'It doesn't look fake to me.' Manager: 'But it's a two dollar bill.' Guard: 'Yeah? ' Manager: 'Well, there's no such thing, is there?' The security guard and I both look at him like he's an idiot and it dawns on the guy that he has no clue and is an idiot. So, it turns out that my burrito was free, and he threw in a small drink and some of those cinnamon thingies, too. Made me want to get a whole stack of two dollar bills just to see what happens when I try to buy stuff. Just think... those two will be voting soon!!?! YIKES!!! Too late, we already have a nation full of them.

Anyone can be a member of the "price police" and voice their concerns to any seller. It is not against the rules, and never has been, to do so as long as it is done in private, in a respectful manner and does not influence his ad publically.   Benefactors can ask any price they want but ultimately it is the buyer who determines what an item will actually sell for. And it is the buyer who determines what the fair market value would be for a particular item, not the seller.   We are in some crazy times but 20 years ago no one would have thought a MAC11 would sell for $3,000 but they do. The price of things in demand, and in short supply, increase and that is how it has been as long as their has been an open market.   I personally would not use this tragedy to get rich and it only shows how uncompassionate some people are. Especially those who were selling stuff for an increased price before the bodies were probably even cold. I have not sold anything since the tragedy for more than what I was asking months ago. I could not, in my mind, use that tragedy for my personal gain.   Dolomite

I also think there won't be a ban. Stocked up... I didn't rush out and buy anything when the panic hit. I could probably make a ton of money right now, but I like my stuff. I don't want to sell anything. To each his own.   When it comes down to it, TGO has never allowed folks to crap on classified items. That's just one of the rules. They had to clean out a thread more than once last week. I have my opinion on every sale I see. Ain't my job to comment.

I make no concessions.

I am free market all the way and that doesn't stop when it suits me.  It's protrayed as if we have members who don't know the price of a loaf of bread.  Even before this panic there have been firearms way over priced and they sit.  That is still the case today unless someone wants it bad.   TGO is not an open market?  I suspect the answer to that is it is an open market to the members who have paid to be Benefactors.   The first three words of most of the objections to name your own price were I don't think, I will not and I also hate.  All of these start with I.   It's between the buyer and seller and it's natural to form a member opinion based on firearm price.  I have some opinions of my own which stay my own.

Simply put, the BUYER determines the market.  Sellers can ask anything they want, I have absolutely nothing against any seller trying to set a market price, but the buyer determines what is a fair price at the end of day.  The buyers are what drives us cranky tight with our money people off the cliff.   Don't buy a $60 PMAG!  Hold out, be patient.  Don't be angry with the guy asking $60, be angry with the buyer that buys it! 

As someone said on here before. Price it how you like but people will remember those who take advantage of it later on down the road.

I would suspect these "price police" are some of the same people who lowball any reasonable asking price and/or list their own items at the top of the market.  Let me be clear, I have gotten some fair prices for items I have purchased through TGO, but I have yet to lay my eyes on any firearm listed well below it's fair market value.  In fact, the common advise on this site for new sellers has been to look at GunBroker and other outlets to get a decent idea of what fair market price is for your item and price it accordingly.  If some people don't like that a P-Mag that was going for $12 a couple of months ago is now going for double or triple that today, tough luck.  I don't like it any more than anyone else, but don't expect me to not get the best price possible just to make YOU feel better.  How many times have we heard people talk about the SKS they bought for $99 a few years ago and now ask $300 plus for it today?  How about those $400 AK rifles that now go for $700 or more?  Is that greed or just doing business in the classic free market way?  I wonder, are these folks selling their own items at low prices out of the goodness of their hearts?  I seriously doubt it.  I'm considering listing my underfolder AK with a bunch of mags and ammo to see if I can make a little bit of money and then use that for other stuff I would like to buy right now.  You darn well better believe that I'm not going to list it for what I paid for it when I can sell it for a small mint on GunBroker (although I won't ask those prices either to save me the hassle of going through GunBroker).  If people want to work a deal, great.  If they think I've asking too much, then they are free to pass.   It's not like I'm jacking up the price of food, medicine, or water, and any comparison between necessities of life like those and convenience/luxury items like an AK is disingenuous.   And yes, as someone else mentioned, this thread is revealing a lot about folks.  I think Obama would be proud of some of the anti-profiteering rhetoric going on here.  It's always interesting to see the beating that free-market ideas take when people don't like how the system works.  I don't sell stuff to help your wallet, I sell it to help mine.  If you don't like the price, don't buy it.  I heard this same rhetoric before the 1994 AWB and personally regretting not "panic buying" because I listened to all the people who said the AWB wouldn't happen.  Many of these people are the same ones that said Obama would never be re-elected.  Thanks, but I'll rely on my own judgement and if I'm wrong, too bad for me.  I find it puzzling that asking fair market price for an item is somehow dishonorable. Incidentally, if any of you "honorable" folks have a vintage Colt Single Action Army, I'll be willing to pay you the full $34 retail price that it sold for originally.  I know that no "honorable" person would ever sell one of these for $1500 plus today and take advantage of poor buyer.   http://www.americanhandgunner.com/~hrank/ah/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/6a.jpg  

IMO ... and out of respect for fellow TGO members -- I will not price gouge on these boards.  I'll offer up fair trades (like you can see in my gear classified ad's)   I think 2-3-4x MSRP should be put up on Armslist and/or Gunbroker.  I wish we could keep TGO sanctified to a certain extent :usa:   I have sold a few things for a premium on Gunbroker, but I have also traded fairly here on these boards.   This is a brotherhood community of sorts IMO, and I hate to see any sort of price gouging on here.   just my useless :2cents:

TGO policy hasn't changed. If it's too high, it doesn't sell.

I'm glad I never bought into the Facebook fad.  The twit thing is even more ridiculous.  I don't care how many friends you have and I don't have any interest in what you had for lunch.  I might join something called "Gunbook".  Naw, TGO is all I need.

Gregory was supposedly informed by the DC police that having the magazine would be illegal.  Not only did he intend to commit a crime, he did commit a crime. 

Last month I went to Tactical Response Fighting Shotgun course. Its a two day class from 8an to 5pm. Loved the staff and instructors there. My wife was able to get a little footage and so did I with a HD Contour POV camera on the shotgun. The shotgun I used was my Saiga-12 seeing as its a semi auto magazine fed shotgun to make it a little easier on my 1 armed ass lol.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj0L5tinuAI

  After? Fiend-stein's bill will call for doing away with most all of them as they now exist, rifles and handguns.   This bill in the House is just one of the many little "nibble" bills that will probably be introduced just for newsplay and influence in support of  the big kahuna.   - OS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDglpt8hpyg

My mother-in-law doesn't bow my floors. Your safe will be fine.

My income dropped 20% last year and that lousy sob gives people a raise that I'm already supporting.   My patience is wearing thin.

It's a lot harder to get away with criminal activity in the private sector.

I eat there pretty often before work. I don't like my coworkers..

Why is that absurd?  You are arguing that it is "dishonorable" to sell your items for more than either 1) what they originally cost, or 2) more than what YOU think they should go for.  Using your own logic, if it's dishonest price gouging to sell a $12 P-Mag for a 200% profit, then selling a $35 revolver for a 4200% profit must be absolutely criminal. If you want to talk about absurdity, it's suggesting that people selling their own property by listing them for what they believe are market prices is somehow dishonest.  Should people be forced to sell their gold at it's value 5 years ago before the market changes sparked "panic buying" that drove the gold price up?  What about all the people who post in the C&R forum all the time about "buying them cheap and stacking them deep" so that when the prices jump up, you can sell them for a profit?  Your logic just doesn't wash if you believe in free market economics.  What this issue is really about is people being upset that the stuff that was cheap a month ago isn't cheap anymore due to changing political winds and concerns for what that means for the future price and availability of these items.  In a free market system, sellers can use this to raise the price, and consumers can decide if that price is justified based on their opinion of the market whether that price is justified.  You might say $40 for a P-Mag is criminal, but for someone who doesn't have any and is now afraid they will not be able to obtain them in the future at any price, then $40 is a fair price. Clearly, if someone is misrepresenting an item and being deceptive or dishonest to get more than the item is actually worth on the market, then that is dishonorable and violates the ethics of free market economics. Let me be clear on one thing.  I think most everyone who buys and sells on TGO is honest and fair in their transactions.  I have seen some items priced too high, and that's their prerogative.  It will sell, or it won't.  If it doesn't then the seller can lower the price or keep the item.  If a person gets a reputation for consistently overpricing their items or misrepresenting them, then they will not get the continued respect of buyers and will likely find themselves banned from TGO.  No dishonor, no unfairness, no brotherhood; nothing but business.  I've had fellow TGO members send me small parts for free and refuse to accept payment, and I try to return the favor when I can.  I've also paid top-of-the-market price for something because it's something I want and I think that the price is fair overall; not a bargain, but fair.  I just really don't get this price police crap.  If someone were to email me and berate me as being less than honest for my asking price for an honestly described item, they would be getting quite a passionate and unpleasant response from me.

Unless you have a crystal ball, I don't think that there is any way to clearly say that someone is an unethical opportunist.  No one here knows what they paid for whatever they are selling.  You may think that you do, or think that you have a pretty good idea based on a sale you saw somewhere a month ago for the same item, but as has been pointed out, it really only matters what the buyer and the seller think.  All others need not apply.

I agree. I would rather just hit him upside the head with my 1911... just because he really needs it.

Well; I guess I'll just have to continue to not understand. :shrug:   No one is being taken advantage of...there have been times I've paid more for something than it was worth to someone else because I wanted it and was willing to do so...the sellers were not taking advantage of me because I wasn't and no on is being forced to buy anything from anyone so I simply don't see the problem.   People asking what they want for an item and someone paying what they are willing to pay is about as "free market" as you can get and I don't see why that should bother anyone.

[quote name="xRUSTYx" post="870624" timestamp="1356722276"]IMO ... and out of respect for fellow TGO members -- I will not price gouge on these boards.  I'll offer up fair trades (like you can see in my gear classified ad's)   I think 2-3-4x MSRP should be put up on Armslist and/or Gunbroker.  I wish we could keep TGO sanctified to a certain extent :usa:   I have sold a few things for a premium on Gunbroker, but I have also traded fairly here on these boards.   This is a brotherhood community of sorts IMO, and I hate to see any sort of price gouging on here.   just my useless :2cents:[/quote] I would absolutely do the same, as one who has given away firearms, ammo and mags to family and friends in the past. The only issue I would have would be someone buying something with he intention of flipping it for profit (which has been mentioned by members in recent weeks, and is illegal to boot). That kinda stuff is bad form and unethical, in my opinion.

Let your conscience be your guide. It is one thing to sell at fair market price. It is much different to take advantage and try to cash in on the recent tragedy for your own monetary gain. I have a very low opinion of the latter, but I suppose those who are doing it don't care what my opinions are. I have at least a hundred or so mags kicking around. When the price gouging started I had no intention of putting them up for sale to cash in. If a ban goes into effect and the fair market price rises to stupid levels, then I would sell them as such if I wanted rid of them, but what is going on right now is stupid and opportunistic.

Frankly, it seems to me that what anyone sells a firearm or accessory for ($$$) is the business of only the buyer and the seller.   I can't speak for everyone but I try to see things at a fair price; when it's a firearm I use the BB as well as the MSRP and usual retail for new of the same model to help set the price.   I've never understood why some feel they need or have any business complaining about the price someone wants for something...if something is overpriced then just don't buy it...problem solved!

Last month I went to Tactical Response Fighting Shotgun course. Its a two day class from 8an to 5pm. Loved the staff and instructors there. My wife was able to get a little footage and so did I with a HD Contour POV camera on the shotgun. The shotgun I used was my Saiga-12 seeing as its a semi auto magazine fed shotgun to make it a little easier on my 1 armed ass lol.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj0L5tinuAI

I pay $200 per month for my range membership.  It's very exclusive.  I own it.  Of course there was an initial down payment involved.  After repeated frustrating visits to public ranges I felt that my sanity and safety were worth the investment.  I can use it any time, there's no waiting, gated access, and best of all, I don't have to be repeatedly muzzled and deal with obnoxious rudeness.  As a bonus, I can hunt there, ride my 4 wheeler, pick any campsite I want for my 1987 camper, and blow up TVs with tannerite.  At most ranges, you pay your money and it's gone.  At mine, I pay my money but it's still mine.    I offer this not to brag but to present what to me was a sensible alternative to public ranges.  I'm not a wealthy guy and had to make some sacrifices to accomplish this goal.  I wound up with 22 acres, mostly wooded, 20 minutes from my home.  Closer than any public or private range.  Yes, I have also invested a good deal of sweat, and continue to do so, to make it what I want.  It has a small pond, a crank well and a barn and could be a good bug out location if it came to that.  It took a while for me to find a suitable location that was affordable so I also had some time invested there as well.  It has been suggested that I look into selling some timber to recoup some of my costs and I may decide to hire a forestry consultant at some time.  That would just be a bonus.   I haven't once regretted the decision to go this route.  Just something to consider.   

It sounds to me like you should take out the necessary loan to open your own shooting range and then price the memberships however you see fit.

BRAVO SIERRA!!! the news has lied.

David's a good man. If I find out anyone who received something without turning around and sending something to someone else it will not be a good day for their membership status. That said, it's only a few days after Christmas. I guess we can give it a week. Let me know privately if you didn't receive a gift.

if you didnt get anything come see me i will make it right for evferyone i had a good time so did my little dog rocco

Why do you think Pluto is no longer a planet?   That's where they stick the dead bodies from the Mars concentration camps.   And if you think that's mind blowing.... Just like how Superman obtained his powers from Krypton, Obama get's it's powers from Uranus.

We've turned into the TGO improv group. You guys are hilarious.

it was a mad house .at my tables the lines were orderly with no pushing and shoving. i did sell an awuful lot of reloading supplies with only 1 price hike on 223 brass 1.5 cents but i didnt have very much.i still have most eveything else. if i didnt have much to say today it was because i was so busy  some prices were outrages had i guy with a sign selling p mags for 75.00 he wanted an 8 pound tite group i told him 450.00 he jumped up i told him if he can triple his mag price why can i not do that to my powder he didnt think it was funny.all jokes aside i saw people trying to get 400.00 for a striped lower .if you come tomorrow stop by and say hello

$2 bills  Guns Shows and Titty Bars.....GOD BLESS AMERICA! 

Update, moments ago received a phone call on the home phone (that is rare), it was state representative Jimmy Matlock.  He says he always responds via phone calls.  He agreed with my letter completely.  He also says the great giant may have been awoken.  I was very impressed!!!

Did I mention rules? :)

Well then, if it's the one I'm thinking of then (and recently joined) then it's well worth the price I'm paying. I understand the one I am talking about isn't inexpensive but shooting as a hobby isn't exactly inexpensive either.   Each of us have to decided for ourselves what we can afford to do/pay...complaining about the price one places charges seems, at best, inappropriate to me.

Again, I have yet to see anything posted in the classifieds that I thought was just an absolute steal listed far below it's market value.  I have personally posted items for sale at very reasonable prices based on GunBroker, local retail, and online vendor pricing and almost never get full asking price.  Are these people greedy and selfish for trying to get a better deal for themselves?  I have seen people who had to sell their items due to financial hardship.  Did any of these "honorable" members of the TGO "brotherhood" step up to give them full asking price, or better yet, loan them the money outright so they could keep their firearms?  I know in many cases, the answer is no because I've been one of those folks at one point.  I desperately needed some cash and had people beat me up over the price so much that I ended up taking about $300 less than what it was worth because I needed the money. 

Hmm, mine has yet to be closed.

So then by his logic, too prove a point, I should be able to conceal carry in D.C. and not be investigated. Yes I broke the law but I wasn't planning to commit any crimes. Yeah that will fly. :down: :down:

Gun control means little or nothing when it comes to crime rates. Memphis consistently has a higher crime rate than Chicago. Chicago is 4.2 times the size of Memphis. I don’t know how many murders Memphis had last year, but find out and do the math so we can compare them with that story.   I say this because I don’t want the decisions on gun control based on crime rates. It will be used against us. Memphis has very little gun control but is one of the most dangerous cities in this country.

They are also buying 1 out of every 10 homes in Commiefornia!! I will never buy another house again.

Also factor in these two likely scenarios:   Confiscation would be best implemented in tough times. In tough times you need lots of law enforcement. If the best and only chance a LEO has at feeding his family and keeping them from starving is from being a LEO, he may do things he disagrees with morally.    Also, although many LEO's may generally agree with the 2nd Amendment, there are many things that LEO's hate. Criminalize "Assault Rifle" owners to the point that they are considered terrorists, and then LEO's are "fighting the bad guys" aren't they?   That's the way Nazis killed a bunch of Jews isn't it?

Candy. Vacuum seal or ziplock a bit of your favorite candy. I'm a candy fiend anyway, but you'd be surprised how much a moral booster a cherry lifesaver is. Orange pez, sweetarts, a pack of Mambas, some Spree. Keep it hard candy, you'll probably regret a pack of gummy bears when that .... gets all gooey. Don't go overboard, it'll play hell on your thirst. BUT, keeping your sugar up for the couple of days youre marching will do wonders. Katadyn water filters are pricey but not quite as costly as dysentery from poorly filtered water. Probably wouldn't kill you in three days but who wants to show up to mom & dads house with a screamin case of the squirts?

Apparently, there's no tax on plinking cat turds.