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+1,000   It was a matter of revenge or securing resources because there have been other countries that have done far worse and we have not gotten involved. As awful as Saddam was he did keep his country, and the region, stable. When we entered Iraq we pretty much had every other Muslim nation in the region declare us as the enemy for killing fellow Muslims.   We will be mired down in the middle east for at least a generation now because those Muslims being born today are going to be taught that the US is the enemy and must be defeated. The only way for us to get out is to defeat, and kill, every Muslim on the planet but that is not going to happen so our "War on Terror" is going to be perpetual from now on. We will never again live in peace as a nation and the government will use every threat as a means to take away a few more freedoms until we are living like those Iraqis we were trying to free from an oppressive regime. The Muslims are not going to give up until they have defeated us. They will not tire of war, they will not quit and they will continue to fight because they are fighting for their God.   Personally Iraq should have been treated exactly how we are treating North Korea now. That is because their capabilities are similar. Neither could actually attack the US and neither are not stupid enough to try.

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    We should be fine here Mike, 

There were a lot of good submissions, but I did not see one that I loved, so I decided to use one that I have been thinking of:  Amendment 2 Custom Coating.     Since I promised a two prizes, I did a first and second place into the drawing.   Thank you for everyone that participated.   Winners, please PM me to make arrangements.   First place:  cj0e  gets choice of complete pistol or AR15 cerakote 2nd place:  D3vo get a pistol slide cerakote   http://www.random.org/draws/details/?draw=22685

  I think where I differ from the majority of folks, to include yourself, is I don't believe the errors were made with ill intent, such as increasing wealth or power.  I realize that is generally the goal of 99% of politicians, but I just don't believe it is the case here.  I believe there were good intentions, good being a relative term, which had a really bad outcome.  I reject the notion that Bush did this out of some kind of daddy related issues though.  I think that is a low blow that folks take because they're sore about having father/son presidents.  I don't like that idea either, which is why I voted for McCain in the primary back then.  He was a war hero, after all.   To believe that any action by Dubya against Iraq was motivated by efforts of his father, or the attempt on his father's life by Saddam, does not explain Bill Clinton's military action against Saddam's regime, does it?  Why can Slick Willy do it but not Georgie?  If you recall, Clinton is the one who sent cruise missiles into Saddam's intelligence service headquarters, killing a bunch of the very folks who were masterminding the plot against George Sr.  He specifically did this in retaliation for the failed plan.  In 1998, it was the UK and US (headed by Clinton) who said enough was enough with the stonewalling of UN/IAEA inspectors, right?  They bombed Iraq for days.  There are folks on this very site who were deployed to that region during that mess who were on standby to put boots on Iraqi soil.  I don't see Bush or Cheney's evil, oil grubbing hands on that, do you?   So why is it nuts that only four years later we started putting Saddam on notice again?  We hit him in '91, 93, 95 and '98.  Each time with a message from the POTUS to not screw with us and toe the line.  If you ask me, Bush gave more time to start spanking Saddam than his predecessors.  In fact, wasn't there some famous quote that Bill Clinton said to Dubya in 2000 on Clinton's way out the door?  Said something about Saddam is going to give him all kinds of trouble or something?     Just prior to upping the rhetoric on Saddam, the chief inspector who left Iraq in '98 had a lot to say about unaccounted for WMDs.  He later on decided to do a 180, perhaps because he saw how his words were being used, but the damage had been done.  Add to that the Iraqi exiles and defectors who were reporting on Saddam's WMD programs.  Granted, the veracity of these claims should have come into question, because these folks wanted the US to force regime change (and put them in power), but they were paraded across LIBERAL networks such as CNN and PMSNBC, which was enough to convince the American public that Saddam had WMDs and was violating the UN resolution.  I don't think Saddam was doing much for his case considering he was on record as saying he'd never allow inspectors back in.  By the time he decided to soften his tone it was too late; we had troops on the border ready to go.  Any President, even Obama, wouldn't have turned back at that point knowing full well that once the war dogs were back in their kennel, Saddam would go back to what he did best, which is ignore the terms of his surrender in '91.   Getting back to what I was saying earlier, regarding good intentions, I suppose that there came a point where there was no turning back for the administration.  A "now or never" time, and I believe the prospect of injecting a democracy into the middle east was attractive.  I remember a bunch of quotes back then regarding how democratic nations don't attack each other and such.  I'll admit, back then I would have felt the same; I believe I did.  The idea that a democracy could take hold and spread throughout the region would be death to radical Islam, and would reduce threat of terrorism and stabilize a region which has a huge impact on the market price of a barrel of oil.  It sounds pretty good, don't it.  Of course, back then we were ignorant of how things actually worked in Iraq, and the possibility of second and third order effects which would end up being the exact opposite of what we wanted.  I don't think anyone saw the insurgency coming until the gloomy predictions regarding the de-Ba'athification and disbandment of Saddam's army started to come true.  At that point it was too late and we had the tiger by the tail.    As far as the intelligence goes, I still refuse to believe that Georgie was able to pull the wool over so many people's eyes all by his lonesome.  There were a lot of folks; really smart folks who had access to the same information who had the ability to influence a decision.  Some of those folks were elected to the seats they held, and now try to wash their hands of blame because they claim that they were just going along with it so they'd not get destroyed in a reelection campaign.  The fact that you, or anyone else, could accept that as a reasonable excuse for authorizing a war in which thousands of Americans were killed is beyond my comprehension.  I'd rather have an idiot say he went to war because he had rose colored intentions than hear a "smart" person say they went to war because they wanted to get reelected, don't you agree?   More than most, I have good reason to be emotional about what happened there, and what continues to happen there as I type this.  I spent over three years of my life there.  I lost friends of mine.  I spent a lot of time away from my wonderful wife.  I met a lot of good people there who have met horrible deaths at the hands of ISIS, and even more who have been displaced and are living as refugees, with no hope of ever returning home.  So, I do have good reason to be upset about a few things.  With that, I yet try to be rational.  It is easy to assume there is good and evil, and to simplify another's actions as evil to solidify your opinions.  I don't believe that George Bush is evil.  While I've never met him, I know a lot of folks who have.  I could be wrong, of course, but I won't base my opinion on cherry picked information without considering all the other facts out there.    My opinions on the matter don't fit on a bumper sticker, and anyone who does has not taken the time to critically think on the matter.

no stupid kids getting ice cream or other food all over the place....   no stupid kids skateboarding around causing problems and hurting people...   No idiots running around half dressed and disgusting...   People carrying weapons...   Sounds like a great place to me.   I haven't shopped at Kroger in over a year... guess I'll go there today, I need a few things.

Shouldn't they be busy raising their kids or something?

This is the M85 I picked up a few months ago. And after getting a trust from John Wells I decided to do the right thing and SBR it. First I refinished the stocks in a brown satin but it never really appealed to me. So over the past few days I decided to refinish the stocks. The new version is a lot more red and more glossy. Here is what it used to look like And what it looks like now I purchased a M92, 7.62x39 version, and when it gets here it will get the full tactical treatment.

Nah, annihilate them before they step one foot on US soil; better if its done outside 12 nautical miles to keep the trash in international waters. The way I think is that we obliterate any terrorist organization that declares they want to do us harm, that will give the next ones pause before they declare that publicly. In Iraq, as they announced a new leader we would target him, after a few replacements they stopped announcing new leaders. A bit slow but they learn.

The reason I asked what you meant by "we" is that it seemed very binary in its perspective. There are more than Democrats and Republicans. I personally find the Republican platform as repulsive as that of the Democrats. So, if the Republicans are the "we" then count me out.

So we should send thousands of folks to die because a couple of reporters got themselves captured and killed in an active war zone? Yeah..ummm...Nope.

Those posting various points of view here. We are as about together as a here of cats. The dems stick together no matter what, right or wrong and add voting "irregularities" and they stay in control. We have become what they wanted us to become, divided.

Mine will be coming soon Steve. I'm still in for #16.

The godfather is a great knife. I have one with maple burl handles. The tuxedo will be even sexier.

that is reassuring, thanks.   I'd hate for my first foray into quality cutlery to be a fail.   C'mon you guys,  buy a knife!       Man it is beautiful looking.

I do like Facebook for some of the news sites I follow. But I can really do without the other 99.999999999999999%, which is peoples' narcissistic posts about every aspect of their lives, about which not a single person gives a damn. Yes, we all know you live near the beach and get to see it every day. Yes, we all know that your feet went with you on vacation, we don't need you to provide photographic proof. Yes, we all know that your life is filled with childish drama. Yes, we all know you are afraid to directly confront those that have offended you so you must address them randomly in a passive-aggressive post on the Internet that they'll never see. And nobody cares about any of it. 

Neither are posted... neither prohibit guns.  They just publicly said that they'd prefer people not bring guns... just to get the MDA to shut up and go away.

  No assumptions at all. The "intelligence" was selectively chosen, credence given to known unreliable sources and more reliable intel ignored. Plenty of credible books and documentaries out there.   Hell, even Powell himself, who has played his cards as close to his vest as possible, called his testimony a "blot on his record" and said "It will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now."   Bush went into Iraq because he had to "do something big" after 9/11, and also to finish what his Daddy didn't. And sure, Cheney was the brain that made it happen, Dubya only supplied the cowboy erection. And it's largely that basic a psychological fact I think a most of the various books and documentations didn't give enough credence.   Though I hate to promote anything NBC, the book Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War by Michael Isikoff, is one pretty decent overview. And even the short documentary that Rachael the Commie and MSNBC made from it. Forget who made it, and judge it on the facts of the reporting:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5FaMbnINwc   - OS

  I reckon you're talking to me. OK... I'll send it along asap.

  Because Bush and Cheney pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, and if they couldn't do that they strong-armed them; and the kicker was they did both to Colin Powell, whose UN testimony tipped the balance on The Hill. His whole report was a shameful exercise in hurriedly-compiled and revised half truths at best and outright lies at worst. He at the least strongly suspected it was bogus at the time, knew it was afterwards, and has recanted it since;  and is the reason his political career ended.    - OS

Says you. I believe it depends on where you work and what art we're talking about. If a guy shows up to a job interview for a factory position and he's got a Mike Tyson face tattoo, I'm going to question his ability to make well thought out decisions. I'm not going to hire that person when there is someone comparably qualified that presents a more mature and professional appearance. Likewise, I doubt that if I went to biker bar or hipster joint to look for a job and I came dressed as if I walked off the set of Ozzie & Harriet they'd be looking to hire me. Most friends I have and folks I work with are tattooed. Many with visible tats (sleeves/forearms). I don't think twice about it and neither does anyone else. I suppose if they went to interview at a toddler daycare though, their tats would be noticed. This is reality, and folks who make the choice to have visible body art must realize that they are potentially compromising certain opportunities when they do that. That's up to the individual to decide, but I think it is absolutely preposterous to place blame on the business for considering visible body art during the hiring process. We all make choices, and we are beholden to those choices. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure, he can think that all he wants. It seems to make him feel better about being broke and dependent on mommy. Point is, I could care less if someone had a penis tattooed I their face. I just think it's ridiculous that folks believe the rest of society should conform to them when they are in no position to require things of other people. A business doesn't have to hire you. If you do something to your outward appearance that is perceived to be unprofessional, whether you interact regularly with customers or not, I would not hire you. A lot of folks feel that way. That doesn't make them ignorant. That makes them more concerned with their business than the feelings of someone who would rather "express himself" than be employed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bluff City Diner for lunch.   Ridgewood BBQ for....well. bbq.

As much as I like guns and shooting, eating would be a close second.   What are some of the best places to eat  around the state?   Murfreesboro- Kleer Vu Lunchroom  If you like good home style southern cooking, it's hard to beat this place. Huge portions and lip smacking good.   Shelbyville- Uncle Sonny's BBQ. Their baby back ribs and brisket are the best I've had outside the Memphis area.   Fayetteville- Marvin's Family Restaurant More southern cooking at an all you can eat buffet. Frog legs and catfish every day.

http://kfor.com/2014/09/05/oklahoma-woman-claims-spaghetti-strainer-as-religious-headwear-in-license-picture/

Not all of them are dead, and not all reside in Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia. What those who planned and executed 911 have to do with Iraq is the mentality. If we could guarantee that they would stay in their own borders I may be inclined to agree with you. But they won't, sooner or later they will plan and execute another attack. Boston, DC, LA, NY, who knows but I would rather take them out before we find out. Though it is flesh and blood we destroy, its the mentality of those people that needs to be defeated for that is what may ultimately succeed in making that attack in the US.

True enough, it is something extra to carry. I got a holster for mine and attach it to my backpack. That way it's off my belt and doesn't snag on anything going up and down a tree. The weight is pretty minimal, and I don't notice it attached to my pack. DEET works great for me in the off season, but I'm too chicken to use it hunting in case the deer can smell it.

Nah, its like when you argue with your brother/sister. Only you are allowed to argue with them, any outsiders will be punished!

  Should be not have entered into WWI or WWII? If either of those is yes, what's the criterion? When does internal become "external"?   A nation usurping another? (ISIS has declared itself a nation, and is usurping parts of Syria and Iraq). Attack on American interests or Americans themselves? (ISIS has threatened our embassies,  oil fields with US joint operation, and executed non-combatant Americans).   At what point should the US ever fight abroad? Humanitarian reasons, perhaps only those that approach genocide?  In defense of certain pacts, like NATO? Or like, never, simple as that? Maybe we shouldn't have embassies anywhere at all either?   Meaning, I agree about Dubya's invasion, but then again, his Dad's action was because Sadaam went into Kuwait. Is there a difference?   Difficult for me to make a flat blanket statement about all involvement abroad.     - OS

Kroger already said they would not be banning guns and that they trust their customers to act responsibly. 

not much, just sitting here clutching my rifle waiting for the black helicopters to land in the yard.. :waiting:

I don't have any tats and have nothing against those that do. I see some that look ok.   I would have a hard time spending $500 on something I could not trade in or sell later when I got tired of it or changed my mind. Most $500 guns will hold there value or may even gain in value over the years. The tat is there forever and the money is gone forever. Just my 2 cents.

I told my daughter that the butterfly on the upper part of one butt cheek would look like a vulture when she got my age.

I have a suspended account.  I just could not figure out how to delete it.     It was some years ago, sort of used it for a few weeks.  I did not realize how invasive it can be.  The final straw for me was the repeated friend request from my step mother in law and my ignoring them resulting a phone call demanding to know why I kept ignoring the request.  Suspended it that day.   I will never go back.   Glad it works for some people.

I know I sure wish we had W dealing with ISIS right now instead of the "apologizer".

[quote name="cjohnson44546" post="1186500" timestamp="1409896031"]Neither are posted... neither prohibit guns.  They just publicly said that they'd prefer people not bring guns... just to get the MDA to shut up and go away.[/quote Exactly. All were targeted by "moms" to scare/intimidate the sheeple. Disgusting.

  Oh, I didn't link that one doc I linked, or even the book it was based on (though I did read it, and it was even more compelling), as some kind of comprehensive end-all proof or anything, just hits the high points of the whole affair, but I'm convinced that an overall all assessment of all available evidence by all the statements from the folks involved provides overwhelming substantive evidence that if actual facts were used as the basis of decision making in the White House, we'd never have set foot in Iraq. And most certainly Congress would not have funded it -- they were the first en masse dupes.   And yes, I do think the root of the thing was Dubya's overwhelming and rather desperate desire to "do something" decisive after 9/11 and our fledgling whack-a-mole involvement in Afghanistan wasn't cutting it for him.  My "testosterone" references are mostly euphemistic, and not meant in a true Freudian way,  but I think they're rather descriptive of his mindset, which was more emotional than rational in selecting a target, actually any target he could be convinced would provide vindication. And yes, I think Daddy's previous involvement with Sadaam reinforced that.   And yes yes, I do think Bush is that dumb in that way -- whole shebang could never have happened without Cheney. They called Rowe "Bush's Brain" , but Cheney and his minions took over that role during for this endeavor. And I wouldn't be the least surprised to find that Dubya still doesn't to this day fully grok the degree to which he was not in control of the whole idea, let alone the selling of it.   - OS

I never thought I could make a joke that would go over your head. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  President Bush took almost unfair advantage of the post 9/11 patriotic fervor.  Voting against another Iraq war was a non-starter for any politician or else they would be demonized as soft on terror.  It wasn't a fluke that the vote took place in October 2002, the month before that years mid-term elections.  They knew that election would keep enough votes in their favor.    The truth is that his administration (especially Cheney, Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz) were looking towards Iraq as they were still cleaning rubble in NYC and at the Pentagon.  Every memoir I've read from the Bush administration can attest to that.  They went looking for a fight in Iraq despite having no legitimate reason and got what they wanted.

Allen set returned to me tonight. Pm you

I have one friend, my wife. My only use for FB is entering some contests/giveaways like the Starline one to win a Hornady press. I have won a couple of Schrade knives from giveaways on there. Also a member of a couple firearm and reloading groups to watch for deals.

My 17 still has occasional brass to face.  It was terrible when I first got it, so Glock sent me a replacement recoil spring.  Then I installed the updated ejector as well as an APEX extractor.  These parts combined improved brass to face dramatically, but I still have erratic ejection patterns with occasional BTF.  Overall I like the gun, but I prefer M&P.

Knoxville- - - -Chandler's 

Spent too many years trying to keep others from putting marks on and holes in my body to get a tat. Not my thing but if you like them go for it.

I'm digging up this old thread.   I got my first tattoo about 3 months ago.  I am a mechanical engineering student and I took my career choice into consideration when I picked the location for my tattoo, it is on the inside of my bicep, and is covered by most short sleeve t-shirts.  My wife has 4 tattoos now, all from the same artist, and all of them have personal meaning to her.  We looked at several shops and finally settled on an artist who we knew did excellent work.  I think that alot of "bad" tattoos come from people with bad taste or people who make rash decsions.  It took me about 6 months to decide on what I wanted to get and now its something that I love and will never regret.  I didn't get my tattoo for anyone but myself not even for my wife.  All these things I think are important to consider

  Something tells me it's mostly "oh sh*t, watafa!"

  and this is why sometimes the best form of activism is the lack of activism.

Ruger P89 for a lady. Custom mix Tiffany Blue [URL=http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/sigbrownsgunworks/media/Ruger%20P89/WP_20140901_08_34_00_Pro_zpsd14d81c4.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/sigbrownsgunworks/media/Ruger%20P89/WP_20140901_08_32_50_Pro_zps7a9e00a1.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/sigbrownsgunworks/media/Ruger%20P89/WP_20140901_08_32_03_Pro_zps61549924.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/sigbrownsgunworks/media/Ruger%20P89/WP_20140901_08_31_34_Pro_zps07991b2d.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/sigbrownsgunworks/media/Ruger%20P89/WP_20140901_08_31_10_Pro_zps19cbc0cc.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/sigbrownsgunworks/media/Ruger%20P89/WP_20140901_08_30_29_Pro_zpsc3de83e3.jpg.html][/URL]