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PAULSHOOT

MY Violation of Rule 1(Treat All Guns as Loaded) & Result

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I post this in SHAME and CONCERN about what I did in hopes maybe refresh everyone's safety.  BTW, I have a Post similar under the topic on this Forum regarding a Recoil Rod question that I was reviewing when the discharge of my 9MM G2 happened.  Just thought might catch more eyes as a separate Topic. It's a bit long presentation. 

Monday Evening, a member had brought up an issue with a gun (same model as my PT111 G2 9MM). He had noticed his Recoil Rod could be pushed out past the front of the frame when he had the gun broke down for cleaning. 
 
I thought that sounds normal to me as the Recoil Rod has to go out the front of the slide when firing the gun to allow the slide to go back. He had in fact said the gun functions OK.
 
Anyway,  wanted to verify my thoughts. So, I decided to break my gun down (remove the slide to verify all this). I was at my computer desk. 
 
Here is the breakdown procedure for INFO: remove the MAG, check Chamber to make sure no bullet in the chamber (always need to do RULE 1 even though I never keep a bullet in the chamber), then push the slide back about 1/8 inch and release the keeper buttons, let the slide back to normal position (the keeper buttons stay released), then pull the TRIGGER to release the striker (not all guns require that - many do). The Trigger Pull releases the striker and is the final step to pull the slide off the gun (break it down to expose parts for cleaning). 
 
THAT REQUIREMENT to pull the TRIGGER is the ONE BIG reason to MAKE SURE the CHAMBER is EMPTY (and in my opinion somewhat a safety issue). 
 
BTW, the PT111 has a chamber indicator on it. You can just look at that and know the chamber is empty - I did not do that either.
 
I am not STUPID (dumb) about Rule 1 (gun unloaded) when handling. Do it all the time every time I clean or pick up a gun (except for this incident 🙄😔).
 
 
SO Being so SMART about that, what happened??? NOW THE BAD CARELESS PART.
 
The final story is; after breaking the gun down, I verified what the guy saw that you can push the Recoil Rod with your thumb and see it go out the front of the slide. Having verified what I thought, I put the gun back together and put the MAG in and put the gun away (nothing in the Chamber, I never Carry with one in the Chamber)
 
I decided to watch the Recoil Rod come out the front. So, I picked up the gun and manually pushed the slide back, of course it did protrude out the front.  Then I released the slide, guess what a round loaded in the Chamber when I released the slide as I had the MAG in. That was the first part of the BAD.
 
Then a bit later, I decided to break the gun down again: Took the MAG out, DID NOT CHECK THE CHAMBER. I guess figured I just had it apart, or just did not think ( VIOLATE RULE 1).
 
Got to the step to Pull TRIGGER (release the striker). Gun went off (loud and scared the crap out of me).
 
Only good thing was that it was pointed in a safe direction due to the way I was sitting and doing the operation (more by accident than by my thoughts).
 
The bullet traveled at a down angle to my left (due to the way I was holding the gun getting ready to remove the slide). The bullet  went thru front of a drawer (bottom edge) of another desk, and thru the top back of a lower drawer (top edge). Then thru the back of the desk, thru the wall into a bedroom. It then hit the treadmill in that bedroom (low about 4 inches off the floor and front about 6 inches from the edge) where the heavy part of the tread mill is located. That stopped the bullet.  
 
Just to say what could have been- had the gun been level, and a bit further pointed east, it would have went thru a TV, the wall into the adjacent bedroom and out the window of that bedroom. Then who knows what? Killed someone?  
 
I was lucky and Needless to say, I was UPSET and still I am still UPSET.
 
My wife (gun hater) was REALLY UPSET, that has been smoothed over to an extent as EVERYONE makes mistakes. 😞
 
ONLY GOOD THING - HOPEFULLY I learned to practice (100 % of the time) something (Rule 1) that I all ready knew and have always practiced.    
 
 
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A good reminder.

It happened because you pulled the trigger, as many will point out.

It can also happen without you pulling the trigger. Which they like to deny.

We can’t be careful enough with a loaded firearm.

I’m OCD about having an ND or a AD and have been handling guns for over 50 years. I still am concerned it could happen to me. I’ve had one AD, but the gun was pointed at a target when it happened.

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29 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

A good reminder.

It happened because you pulled the trigger, as many will point out.

It can also happen without you pulling the trigger. Which they like to deny.

We can’t be careful enough with a loaded firearm.

I’m OCD about having an ND or a AD and have been handling guns for over 50 years. I still am concerned it could happen to me. I’ve had one AD, but the gun was pointed at a target when it happened.

I transfer a loaded (in the chamber) gun from my nightstand holster to my IWB  holster, and vice versa, daily.  I fear a ND at that time.  Especially when inserting into the IWB as I dont have a good visual of the gun going in due to the position (4-5 o'clock) that I carry.  There have been a few occasions when my t-shirt got caught inside the holster! YIKES!  Fortunately, no ND, but talk about scary.  

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28 minutes ago, Defender said:

I transfer a loaded (in the chamber) gun from my nightstand holster to my IWB  holster, and vice versa, daily.  I fear a ND at that time.  Especially when inserting into the IWB as I dont have a good visual of the gun going in due to the position (4-5 o'clock) that I carry.  There have been a few occasions when my t-shirt got caught inside the holster! YIKES!  Fortunately, no ND, but talk about scary.  

There's no safer way to holster the gun, then attach holster and gun to your self?

 

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They say there are two kinds of gun owners.

Those who have had a ND and those who will. 

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Glad to hear there was no injury save a bit of furniture. Good on you for sharing. It really is a good illustration of how one can be cognizant of said rule, but how concentration or focus on a tangent can make you miss something obvious.

Appreciate the confidence to share the story!

 

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Thanks for posting. Always good reading and reminder things can happen if we let our guards down and skip rules. Glad all went well in the aftermath. 

Had a friend who shot his foot, in his car, last year while trying to re-holster while siting in the driver seat, in front of a city business in his car with wife and family in the car with him.  Things happen. Police got involved and he had big problems. 

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Always a concern/fear of mine; besides being embarrassing it can be tragic.  I always preach handle a gun as if it is a poisonous snake.  Deserves full attention and complete focus at all times.  A momentary loss of focus can have deadly consequences. 

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Another plus to always having one in the chamber.  Every maintenance procedure starts with clearing your weapon, and always start that on step one, even if you feel you've performed it previously.   Good on you for reminding us of what can happen when you don't.  

As to the SDs , vs NDs, I've always been very careful about holstering my gun, but it made me even more so when this story came out, then this news report added additional things to look for. 

https://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

 https://youtu.be/FrJMQupYxaw

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Folks, I really appreciate the replies and now glad I took the time to post this despite my embarrassment over My Negligence. Your inputs have been considerate and EYE OPENING.

OMEGA's Post with links to other accidents (negligence I think involved also) was eye opening also. I am FWDing those links to other folks.  

If I could post pictures on this site, I would show the path of the bullet (pictures I took of Bullet Holes). I did post them on a TAURUS Forum (easier to do there). 

I can tell you I will never forget this (it is a very disturbing bit of negligence on my part).

Not to inject Humor in this serious situation. However, one good thing is, I don't have many years left to have this on my conscious (I am 81 but in good health Physically and Mind, I think Mind. Maybe live another 10 years LOL). 

 

 

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I've got a friend who put a round into his closet wall then called me asking how he could get rid of "that gunsmoke smell" before his wife found out.

He swears the gun, a Glock 17, slam fired when he released the slide to chamber a round.  I checked the gun thoroughly and couldn't find any evidence that the striker safety or its spring were bad but he still swears it to this day.

Point being, it happens.  Always keep them pointed in a direction that won't cause harm or injury should something "happen" while cleaning, clearing, stowing, etc.

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1 minute ago, TGO David said:

He swears the gun, a Glock 17, slam fired when he released the slide to chamber a round.  I checked the gun thoroughly and couldn't find any evidence that the striker safety or its spring were bad but he still swears it to this day.

I’ve not seen it with my own eyes, but I’ve been told by people that I trust it happened. It’s why I’m always thinking about where the round would go when I drop a slide or a bolt. Its also an AD; not an ND. It becomes an ND if someone gets hurt.

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Reading this will make me go check my leather belt slides and full holsters. I might even have to rethink my comments on the kydex/leather holsters.

I've never had that situation, but I have had an AD.

It was with my Dad's competition High Standard. The trigger pull on it was wonderfully short and smooth. Also very, very light. Measured around 1.5 lbs.

I loaded a mag, brought it up a little high prior to dropping sights onto target. And laid my finger on the trigger. Proceeded to let off several rounds into the ceiling above the target and backdrop.

Two lessons learned. Change my style of getting on target, and keep my finger away until certain I'm read for a shot.

I was about 20 then. Dad had some choice words for me.

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8 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I’ve not seen it with my own eyes, but I’ve been told by people that I trust it happened. It’s why I’m always thinking about where the round would go when I drop a slide or a bolt. Its also an AD; not an ND. It becomes an ND if someone gets hurt.

Yep.  I guess it's possible and he swears his finger was nowhere near the trigger when he dropped the slide, but I really couldn't find any evidence that the gun was faulty.

 

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On 11/27/2019 at 10:58 AM, TomInMN said:

There's no safer way to holster the gun, then attach holster and gun to your self?

 

The idea of a paddle holster is appealing, for this very reason, but Ive yet to try a paddle holster that seems very secure.  They seem to move too much for me.

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A holster IS a safety device. I’ve had leather holsters for decades and never had one do what that did in that story. Using a deformed holster like that would be stupid on my part. You have to make sure nothing is in the holster when you are reholstering, but you have to do that with kydex also.

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I will not carry without a covered trigger. Even in a pocket, I use a pocket holster.

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The holes in the wall are patched. Bullet size holes and I filled them with DAP from a tubel(it's pink when you apply it and turns white when dry). Fortunately our walls are white and sort of rough texture, so it blends in. Also, the damage is low on the wall and not noticeable (one is behind the computer desk the projectile went thru.  

The bullet entered the tread mill cover (plastic) and pretty sure judging from angle of travel that it hit what I call a Flywheel on the Motor Shaft. That Flywheel is metal (steel likely). I could see no other damage and the Treadmill works. Saved a few hundred $$$ there. 

I did not find a slug of lead anyplace. I did have a sliver of copper and lead that I picked up and disposed of the time it happened.  As I remember that was two relative thin spread out pieces about size of a nickle. It was a Hollow Point Defense round. 

I am a Lucky Guy the way this turned out, the projectile even missed all the electrical wires behind that desk (Wires for Computer, TV, Phone, WIFI Router, etc.). 

I have to be lucky to live 81 years when you consider all the many things I have done.  Still riding MCs about 20,000 miles year on all kind of E TN Backroads.

Even the wife has ACCEPTED (I think). She even encouraged me to take an Indoor Range Membership (on a special $100 deal). I prefer outdoor ranges, but decided to do it at $100. 

That leaves the only thing left is "My Shame" and concern for what I did.   

 

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Now this is really stupid (worse than what I did).

Booby Traps are illegal to start with and then to shoot your self (dead) with your own trap is ---- ???

I am not sure you can read the post on Laws of self defense unless you have a Bronze Membership (FREE). but the E Mail (copy here) Andrew sent describes it. Going to the post, apparently the guy had so  many booby traps that the responding officers called in the bomb squad and other experts to disarm things. 

Today's Post of the Day is prompted by a news story out of Maine in which a man set a pistol-armed boobytrap on his front door, only to trigger the device himself on Thanksgiving Day last week, resulting in his own death. In today's post we explore the various legalities around the use of deadly-force and non-deadly force boobytraps in defense of property. You can access today's blog post at:

http://lawofselfdefense.com

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I worked in the firearm industry for 10 years and heard many similar stories from seasoned gun owners. It’s easy to get complacent when you handle firearms often. Great reminder to never forget the foundation of gun safety at all times. So glad nobody was hurt, thanks for sharing!

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First, lets just all simply agree to be thankful that nobody got hurt (other than ego). I've thought to myself how I would feel if I had a ND in the house. I would feel so much shame and unease for a long time, in my foreseeing opinion.

I hope to never let this happen to myself. Generally speaking, it's the "seasoned" gun owners that I am more afraid of being around when they are handling firearms.

I personally humble myself anytime I handle a firearm. Why? I am 100% completely terrified of what firearms can do. Improper use can/will cause immediate death to myself or loved ones. With that in mind, I always exercise extreme concentration and caution when handling them.

It's my opinion that complacency can be multitudes more dangerous than inexperience.

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stuff happens glad no one was hurt,I slam fired a G23 by mistake once and it scared the bejesus out of me,lesson learned !

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I had a 1911 made in 1945 that was previously owned by a fellow who's trigger finger was cut off at the first knuckle. I don't know how he did it but he had that gun set-up to fire by simply touching the trigger. The gun was known to auto-fire a second round. Anyway, I was being stupid watching the TV while handling the gun. I thought I had removed the magazine and cleared the chamber, but I must have done it in reverse order. I has holding the gun and my finger touched the side of the trigger. The gun went off! My wife, (who was sitting Indian style on the floor in front of me), grabbed at her head and screamed while falling forward. Fortunately, she was reacting to the sound and the gun wasn't pointed at her. My mother's newly upholstered couch didn't fare so well. The hollow point cut diagonally through the seat cushion and stopped in the wooden frame of the couch.

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18 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

I had a 1911 made in 1945 that was previously owned by a fellow who's trigger finger was cut off at the first knuckle. I don't know how he did it but he had that gun set-up to fire by simply touching the trigger. The gun was known to auto-fire a second round. Anyway, I was being stupid watching the TV while handling the gun. I thought I had removed the magazine and cleared the chamber, but I must have done it in reverse order. I has holding the gun and my finger touched the side of the trigger. The gun went off! My wife, (who was sitting Indian style on the floor in front of me), grabbed at her head and screamed while falling forward. Fortunately, she was reacting to the sound and the gun wasn't pointed at her. My mother's newly upholstered couch didn't fare so well. The hollow point cut diagonally through the seat cushion and stopped in the wooden frame of the couch.

Is that the same wife you have now?

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