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ohnoitskamryn

Purchase in GA?

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1 hour ago, ohnoitskamryn said:

Sounds like currently its legal as long as its still a "gift" and not officially transferred. But getting it into her name will still have to go through the FFL. Which means I will have to give the gun back to the father in law in Georgia, and have him ship it to TN....OR have him in TN and we both go together. What a royal pain in the ass

Not necessarily.  You can take the gun to a FFL and have them log it from your father in law and then transfer it to your wife.  When a FFL logs in a firearm they do not log how they received it just that they have it.  They may want a copy of your FILs drivers license but it should not matter if the gun was shipped to them or walked in the front door.  I know that is how it used to be.  

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23 minutes ago, KahrMan said:

Not necessarily.  You can take the gun to a FFL and have them log it from your father in law and then transfer it to your wife.  When a FFL logs in a firearm they do not log how they received it just that they have it.  They may want a copy of your FILs drivers license but it should not matter if the gun was shipped to them or walked in the front door.  I know that is how it used to be.  

So you're saying he doesn't have to be there? The only reason I'm wondering is again, he lives 7 hours a way and we only see each other on holidays. So it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to get him up here for that. 

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24 minutes ago, ohnoitskamryn said:

So you're saying he doesn't have to be there? The only reason I'm wondering is again, he lives 7 hours a way and we only see each other on holidays. So it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to get him up here for that. 

Ask your FFL But I have had a FFL transfer firearms that were driven to him and not by the owner.  He did it with just a copy of the owners DL after talking to them on the phone.  

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26 minutes ago, ohnoitskamryn said:

So you're saying he doesn't have to be there? The only reason I'm wondering is again, he lives 7 hours a way and we only see each other on holidays. So it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to get him up here for that. 

You would have to check with your (or various) FFL’s. I say that because FFL’s are not ever required to do a transfer. The facts in this case may/may not bother them. They will also tell you if they need the FIL’s info or not, and if they need him present (I doubt they need that)

For example, it is legal for an out of state resident to buy a long gun here. When by BIL was here, the dealer would not do it, because they are responsible for not only complying with Federal laws, but they must comply with the laws of both states. He said you may find a dealer that would do it; but not him.

Your case became unusual when a GA FFL did a handgun transfer to a TN resident; in GA. Unusual? Yes. Illegal? I believe so, but I don’t know that for sure. I would guess he did a background on the FIL, never checked anything on your wife, and called it a day. But that’s just a WAG.

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I recently gave my son in law 3 guns for his son when he comes of age. All 3 were Gifts. He liven in S Carolina, me TN. I had to take them to S Carolina and transferee them to the son in law through a FFL there. Rutherford Co Sherriff's office told me that is the only way I could do this legally. These were guns I have owned for years.

So I traveled to S Carolina and did the transfer.  

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2 hours ago, KahrMan said:

Ask your FFL But I have had a FFL transfer firearms that were driven to him and not by the owner.  He did it with just a copy of the owners DL after talking to them on the phone.  

This call an FFL and ask. Some will accept firearms from an individual in another state, some only accept from another FFL, its their prerogative. You may have to call a few to find one wiling to help.  

I don't think it was a straw purchase as they did not Intentionally avoid a background check on the intended recipient.  However, ignorance of the transfer process is no excuse. 

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2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

You would have to check with your (or various) FFL’s. I say that because FFL’s are not ever required to do a transfer. The facts in this case may/may not bother them. They will also tell you if they need the FIL’s info or not, and if they need him present (I doubt they need that)

For example, it is legal for an out of state resident to buy a long gun here. When by BIL was here, the dealer would not do it, because they are responsible for not only complying with Federal laws, but they must comply with the laws of both states. He said you may find a dealer that would do it; but not him.

Your case became unusual when a GA FFL did a handgun transfer to a TN resident; in GA. Unusual? Yes. Illegal? I believe so, but I don’t know that for sure. I would guess he did a background on the FIL, never checked anything on your wife, and called it a day. But that’s just a WAG.

In the original post, it sounds as if the GA FFL transfered the handgun to FIL (a GA resident) with the intent of FIL gifting the handgun to his daughter. That is all legal.

What would not be legal (a violation of federal law, I think a felony) is for FIL to permanently transfer (or gift) any firearm to a resident of a state other than his own. To complete a transfer/ gift in this case, the firearm needs to go through an FFL (with handguns being required to go through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence and long guns having a bit more flexibility).

We can all speculate until our cows put themselves to bed about what your local FFL will or won't do for or require from you. The only way to know for sure is to call them and ask. And be sure they get all the details and are willing transfer the gun from your GA resident  FIL to his daughter in TN.

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I guess I've broken the law a few times, I've bought some guns in the past and gave a couple of them to my brother-in-law who lives in PA. I really never thought about having him take them to his FFL, oh well I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

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8 minutes ago, DJTC45 said:

I guess I've broken the law a few times, I've bought some guns in the past and gave a couple of them to my brother-in-law who lives in PA. I really never thought about having him take them to his FFL, oh well I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Uhhhhh... I might not put that in writing on the internet even as innocent as it really is...

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Not really worried about it. Explain to me how gifting or giving a firearm to someone, is any different from me going to a gun show and buying one from and individual who I don't  know if  they traveled from out of state, the only time that I've been asked or  I ask for ID,  is if I sell or buy here on TGO. So I guess all the guns I inherited when my father passed away, and he was a resident of PA and I moved here to TN. and established this state as my residence that I violated the law? I'm not saying what took place with the OP who started this thread was right or wrong, I just have a hard time believing that what I done was technically illegal, but that's just me.

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24 minutes ago, DJTC45 said:

Not really worried about it. Explain to me how gifting or giving a firearm to someone, is any different from me going to a gun show and buying one from and individual who I don't  know if  they traveled from out of state, the only time that I've been asked or  I ask for ID,  is if I sell or buy here on TGO. So I guess all the guns I inherited when my father passed away, and he was a resident of PA and I moved here to TN. and established this state as my residence that I violated the law? I'm not saying what took place with the OP who started this thread was right or wrong, I just have a hard time believing that what I done was technically illegal, but that's just me.

 

I can only think of one small reason it's potentially different, and I don't think it would provide any refuge if push came to shove. As a private party, you're not allowed to transfer firearms (other than as a temporary loan) to residents of other states. You're also not allowed to transfer to anyone you know is prohibited from owning a firearm. In theory, if you're at a gun show and don't ask someone unknown to you for their ID, you don't know they're prohibited (by residency). If you're transferring to someone you know is not a resident of your state, then you are. As I said before, I don't think this would cover you at all if you found yourself in a courtroom. (And it might be that the residency restriction does have a higher requirement to know, where the criminal history does not. I just don't remember offhand.) Please note that this is not legal advice, just a mental exercise.

No. As mentioned before, a transfer resultant from an estate situation (your father died) can go across state lines without all FFL. (And it sounds like that wasn't actually the case if you only moved to TN afterwards.) Additionally, someone who moves across a state line can legally bring all their guns with them without having to transfer those guns from themselves to themselves. (Provided they're legal in the destination state, so don't move to CA...)

I hope it doesn't bite you on the backside. Whether I agree with the law or not is a separate question from whether the law makes something illegal. In this case, a transfer across state lines that does not involve an FFL is most definitely illegal.

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20 hours ago, ohnoitskamryn said:

agreed and that is what i plan on doing. Do you know if her dad has to be present here? since we are in different states? 

 

 

Royal Range will accept shipments from an individual and transfer them to you for I think $45, well worth the peace of mind to know that you did everything right.

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4 hours ago, DJTC45 said:

Not really worried about it. Explain to me how gifting or giving a firearm to someone, is any different from me going to a gun show and buying one from and individual who I don't  know if  they traveled from out of state, the only time that I've been asked or  I ask for ID,  is if I sell or buy here on TGO. So I guess all the guns I inherited when my father passed away, and he was a resident of PA and I moved here to TN. and established this state as my residence that I violated the law? I'm not saying what took place with the OP who started this thread was right or wrong, I just have a hard time believing that what I done was technically illegal, but that's just me.

Technicalities are what we are discussing. The OP didn’t ask for our opinion on if we thought he would get caught, or if any of us have done it; he asked if what took place was legal.

As far as what you do at gun shows; state law allows for your private sale at a gun show with certain restrictions (age/eligibility). Under state law you must know the person is of age, period. How you determine that is up to you; I request ID (unless the guy looks as old as me; then I’ll risk it). That is the law and your responsibility; if you violate it for any reason, you may be arrested.

Federal and State law outlaws the selling to an ineligible person. Since you can’t do a background check, it is only a crime if you knew the person was ineligible.  I require a bill of sale. It may not stop me from being arrested; but it might help. Especially if the person says they told me they were a convicted felon or didn’t know if they could pass a background check. If they are being arrested; they are going to say anything they think will help them.

Selling to someone from out of state on the other hand is a Federal offense. If while at the gun show you sell to an out of state person, and that becomes an issue; you might be arrested. There are a bunch of ways that could happen. There have been stings at gun shows. Based on the current political climate I suspect they will become common place.

Several years ago on this forum I had a gun for sale. I guy sent me a PM saying that he wanted the gun and was from AL, but was up here often and wanted to know if we could meet for him to get the gun. An innocent error on his part, or a sting by law enforcement to arrest me? Who knows, but I wasn’t about to find out.

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I guess fishing for an answer you want is one way to go.

I wonder how many people would be surprised to find out they dont look as good in an orange jump suit as they thought they would...sorry, what where we talking about again...

 

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On 1/3/2020 at 10:39 AM, FrankD said:

Royal Range will accept shipments from an individual and transfer them to you for I think $45, well worth the peace of mind to know that you did everything right.

thanks for the info! I was thinking about taking it to royal range and asking them anyway. 

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I appreciate all of the info everybody. This was an honest question. My wife, again is from georgia but is a tennessee resident as of the last couple of years. Honestly we did not even think about the whole state to state thing considering this is her first handgun. I now realize that it most definitely needs to go through an FFL to get it into her name so its not a "loaned' weapon from her father. If its going to actually be owned by her ill take it to get it transferred. Again, I thank everybody for their input and I am just trying to do it correctly!

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Hey, you could always pay two lawyers for 15 minutes each, and then you might get 3 or 4 different answers. Take your pick!

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Not trying to be a smart arse.

Seems this guy needs to stop trying to beat the laws (realize he is also just trying to figure the law). 

He needs to go to FFL in TN and ask what to do? NO COST and Easy First Step vs continuing to get different inputs from the FORUM (most say to do that anyway or see a lawyer).  He needs to stop looking for an easy "do nothing" way and end up being in violation of some dumb law.

The local FFL will transfer it if they legally can. And, if they cannot, he can get legal (probably get her Father to come to FFL or get it back to him and have it shipped). 

BTW, Smoky Mtn Gun does Shipped in FFL  for $20 ($10 fee and $10 Background check). At least they did last year.

I had looked into a similar thing when wanting a Phoenix PH22 Pistol to shoot myself (just wanted to shoot one and BTW, I LIKE IT) and gift to my son. He only had a 9MM to take to the range, can't afford to shoot a 9mm for very long, so I wanted him to have a 22.   

I thought I could find a better deal here (TN) than in GA where he lives. So, I figured to buy it here, shoot it some and carry it to him in GA, and gift it.  Then realized the law would not let me do that (dealer in GA said I could -- I didn't trust that).  

Turns out we found a better deal on the PH22 as a Kit (2 barrels, 3 and 5 inch, and extra mag with lockable case, etc.) for $200 out the door in GA.

So, he bought it there and I chipped in 1/2 the cost.

It is his gun, bought by him in GA and paper work done there. 

I have had it and used it more in TN than he has. I had him write me a note that I keep with the gun saying it is loaned to me which it is or was (I took it back to him a month or so ago). 

 

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On 1/2/2020 at 2:14 PM, ohnoitskamryn said:

Okay, so seems like it has to be transferred to official be hers and "legal" other than a "temporary loan" of the gun. So, what do I do? Does my father in law have to be up here in TN and get it transferred here locally? Can we do this without him and just go to an FFL and get it transferred? Or do we have to give the gun back to him in GA, have him ship it to a TN FFL?

 

Do nothing.  The handgun is on loan for the next 70 years and then becomes an estate transfer.  From the ATFE web page above, this is legal.  Don't go looking to wake the bear.  One day that might be the only gun you get to keep. 

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1 hour ago, Colt4530 said:

 

Do nothing.  The handgun is on loan for the next 70 years and then becomes an estate transfer.  From the ATFE web page above, this is legal.  Don't go looking to wake the bear.  One day that might be the only gun you get to keep. 

This 1000x 

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First step, don't post it to the internet. Second step, research the laws and make it right.

 

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well i took it to a range/dealer and they said to do nothing. So we are good! Thanks everyone

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.

Edited by bud
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Stop over complicating this.  What I read was your FIL left the gun at your place last time he visited because you wanted to carry it for a while to see how you liked it.  He hasn't made the trip to pick it back up yet.  

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On 1/24/2020 at 8:34 AM, ohnoitskamryn said:

well i took it to a range/dealer and they said to do nothing. So we are good! Thanks everyone

This is a gun you plan to carry, right? I hope it never comes to it, but potentially this is a gun that could be used to kill someone, right?

In that event, do you think the serial number isn't going to be run? Then what? Assuming you, your wife, and your father in law can all talk your way out of the criminal exposure, you've given the plaintiffs in a civil case one more way to paint you as the bad guys. (They're running illegal guns across state lines!!)

Spend the $50 or whatever to do the transfer correctly, chalk it up to a small CYA/ law abiding gun owner cost.

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