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I couldn't pass this up for the price. I've never seen a "tacticool" over under but here it is. Mossberg HS-12

We do not have a duty to retreat, (stand your ground), but we do have a duty NOT to do anything to escalate a confrontation. The question that the prosecutor and subsequent jury to answer is, did the OP escalate, or even initiate, the confrontation by flipping the bird at the horn-honker? I think that reasonable people would at most rebut receiving the finger with an FU of their own in return, and not see it as an escalation; therefore, they'd see trying to break into the vehicle as an unreasonable escalation in the horn-honker's response. Does anyone want to risk their freedom on that? When you illegally gain entry into a occupied vehicle you are "car-jacking" under the law which authorizes deadly force in this state. It is no different than you standing inside your house and flipping off someone through the window. It doesn't give that person cause to break into your house in return.

A cameo appearance being put in by a DLB ( @Grand Torino) trench knife.

The MP5 just keeps getting better.

Wife and I are a little sore and have some bruises but overall doing good. Driver of the Corvette was ok as well. Thanks.

Who give a rats rear end what china thinks about private gun ownership. The real enemy of private gun ownership is the dem/prog/soc/comm's who are in the chin's pocket & who many here support & voted for.

Personal opinion follows. Back in the turbulent 1960's, My Dad, a pretty smart man I later found out, raised Hell over the "Japanese buying up America!" Buying buildings, land, whole companies, just anything they could. He said back then that they would own this nation in 50 years. I guess he was a Nationalist before it was cool. Well, I don't know what the level of Japanese ownership is today, except for the failed Nakatomi Corporation. I'm sure it's still a pretty fair amount. But what Dad didn't see coming was the Chinese. Even though he fought the Chinese communists/ala Korean Communists in 1950-52, he thought the real threat came from Russia. I guess most people did back then. Even in his short lifetime, he was cut down by lung cancer; Dad always said that people needed to wake up and see what was happening. Dad thought that buying anything not USA made was a horrible sin, and an insult to all who had fought for this Nation. He said we were just giving away our country, a dollar at a time. Well, I think he was right back then, and are still doing it. One personal purchase of cheap, WW imported goods at a time. But it seems that the average people are just small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. We buy small and in most cases, think small. It's the politicians who are selling the country now, not a dollar at a time, but by the millions at a stroke of the pen or a back-room handshake. And it doesn't seem to be all that uncommon anymore. I'm sorry Dad isn't here now, but so glad he doesn't have to see what his people, his country, has become and where it seems to be headed.

Needs a lever

He was right.

We would all like to have a blueprint of what the law requires in any given situation to determine if we can legally use deadly force. We don’t have that. The closest we have is this… Deadly force is justified if a reasonable person believes deadly force is required to prevent death or great bodily harm.”. There are many variations on that wording. We have these discussions/arguments/bickering all the time here. And that’s a good thing. People need to understand all the ins and outs. Two of the most misunderstood terms I see in these discussions is usually “Castle Doctrine” and “Duty to Retreat”. The Castle Doctrine does not create a free fire zone; you can still be charged. And Tennessee doesn’t need to tell you that you don’t have a duty to retreat because as best I can tell; they never had had that as a requirement. Those laws are generally in states that at one time had a duty to retreat. “Reasonable Person” is a Judge or jury, if you go to trial. They will decide if what you did was “reasonable”. What you did will be judged by strangers that will make decisions that could alter your life and the lives of your family. The responding Officers, The investigators, The DA, and ultimately a Judge or Jury, that have hours or even months to decide what you had to decide in seconds will determine your fate. Every case is different. Times are changing. In the past when a criminal got killed committing a violent act; no one really cared. Nowadays if it’s a cop doing the killing; the left wants them charged even when they were clearly in danger. And we have seen that happen when it shouldn’t have. They will certainly apply that same standard to armed citizens killing criminals. “It’s better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6” is a stupid statement. It’s better to not be charged, period. If you are charged with murder you will get exactly the amount of justice you can afford. That would financially destroy most of us.

Well said.

I think China has more invested into the US political class then anyone not in the "club" knows. So much in fact I think if you were to just tell someone it would be considered a "conspiracy theory".

Very glad you are all safe. But... How in the heck did that older model vette hit so high on the liftgate of your Acadia? You'd think he had jumped a ramp to hit there! Is your axle broke or just the tire torn off? Sorry, old habits die hard. Sold parts to repair shops for a long time, and saw a lot of strange hits. Always wondering how it happened. Still can't see something like this and not mentally start to write a parts order. lol

7F79F8C9-92A6-4B47-A46C-D68AA71AAFBD.MOV

Amen to that.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm not kicking this dead horse anymore.

There is an old saying, "A small price to pay for freedom"...somehow I don't think this is what it was originally referring to.

The danger lies in the UN small arms treaty that Trump pulled out of and said it would never happen on his watch....after Obama signed it in what....2013? Get ready for Obama 2.0 folks. Obama did an end around sweep to get his third term. High taxes, high fuel prices when fracking gets chopped which means higher prices on everything moved by truck which is everything we buy.

Woke up to realize that I did not buy pre sliced hog jowl yesterday. One of GT's fine knives came to the rescue!

This may be one of the best threads on TGO I've read in over six and a half years hanging out on this site. Very cool to be able to read the vignette and replies presented. @MarkSas others have said, thank you for being so open and self-reflecting on the incident. We're learning from the benefit of your experience and the conversation it sparked. It's a great benefit to all of us. I think you handled it as well as can be expected when presented with a threat. I also think you have a lesson learned on flipping people off, But these are two separate points in my mind since your actions don't lend any sort of justification to the person's actions in response. Giving the guy a warning may well have had a butterfly effect that kept him alive, and you out of legal hell. I hope for their sake it was a wake-up call about how to live with others...but I'll not get my hopes up. I'm also grateful to learn about these what you experienced with the vehicle lock...I'm still driving a Ford Ranger I bought in 2002, so that a door will unlock after putting the vehicle in park is (disturbing) news to me. Glad there is a way to fix that after purchase.

Wishing you all a Happy New Year and a solid "Good Riddance" to 2020. Here's to hoping that 2021 is infinitely better!

Ewwww, dickholes.

If you got problems i feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems and my glawk ain't oooooooone.

I’m pretty sure he specified double barrel.

Wow. That corvette looks even worse....

I would like to have one in 20 Ga with wood furniture.

Excel spreadsheet with date of purchase, price, added notes, extended description, and current value. Backups of all my documents both onsite and offsite. Before I got married, my wife said "You spent a lot of money on guns." So I showed her my spreadsheet with the bottom line of what I spent versus current value. And explained that it was one part of my diversified investment plan. Since then she has been just fine with my collection. Although she has asked to see my spreadsheet a few times over the years, just to see how our investments were doing.

Made this for new years.

The rest of the story.... We were told at closing by the prior owners that they had placed the rebar. One of my friends tripped over one of the posts while helping us move in and got a nice gash in his shin, which highlighted the problem. We considered a fence, but having just bought the house, and spending 2 months paying rent and a mortgage while repainting and replacing floors in the evenings, we didn't have the cash. And I don't really like fences anyway. I offered to swap the rebar for PVC and he refused. I covered the rebar with PVC, he sawed the PVC in half and left it in my mailbox. Through the course of all this, he never even asked what my name was. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine is that using 5 rebar posts to mark a straight, 100 ft residential property line that's otherwise identified by electrical boxes is stupid. I don't have a lot of tolerance for stupid, particularly when my kids' safety is involved. If that makes me a gun grabbing Karen, so be it.

My disabled friend called today. The money was in her bank account this morning. I'm happy for her. She's one of the people that actually needs the money. Nothing for me yet. I got the first one through the mail. So I expect it to be a while yet.

I bought a still, gona make hand sanitizer, then trade it for plastic.

and we have a winner!!!

Get yourself a dash cam with panorama all around the inside of the car. Not that I'm giving legal advice but if you need to involve the police be the first to call, and always say up front YOU were attacked. Don't mention guns. Someone ripping your door open or banging on your car is an attack. They showed they meant to do you harm. Edit: a good peice of advice i was given (or atleast i think its good) if you can drive. Drive. If they get out of their car drive off. Through them around them whatever. Drive off. If they're trying to enter your vehicle report it as an attack. My girlfriend and I have a rehersed plan where if anything were to happen she records with my phone and calls 911 with hers. She says its an attack and where we are and keeps them up to date as long as im dealing with whatever the "it" is. The other thing I think is important is to always act as though you're being filmed. If a jury watched this happen as movie who's side would they be on?

Hate to say it but if you kept that middle finger holstered the whole situation could have been prevented. Sure I’ve done it. But in today’s day and time ignore the idiots and be like a duck and let it roll off a bit.

I have also struggled with responding to drivers idiocy with that finger. I try hard not to, and will try harder in future, me thinks.

Thank you all for the discussion, as I have learned from the group. I hope this never happens to any member, and can now from experience say, "Turn the other cheek", as legally I might of been justified, the reality would have set in that my one finger salute set in motion the events that took a life. Even though the other party played a part, and had no business trying to come into the car, I am responsible personally, even if not legally, for my actions, and testament. I hope this experience, can be used as a lesson, and maybe save a member from being put in a similar situation, or having to live with a decision.

I belong to the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Net. 360-978-5200. They have a good program (IMO the best benefit for the money)for those who join and the cost is much more likeable. Call and talk to them. It is not insurance but they do the same as others insurance companies. I pay 85.00 per year and I think the first year is a little higher. I been a member for years, and consider it just like homeowners insurance. My advice on your incident, forget the one finger salute next time. You did well except for that one item. glad it turned out for the best. A lot of hotheads out there who are wearing a chip on their shoulders this-day-in-time. "Best to turn the other cheek", if possible, then go on your way. Edited to ADD; Call ACLDN 360-978-5200 and ask them for a copy of a short booklet, "What Every Gun Owner Needs to Know About Self-Defense Law." They will send it to you at NO charge to you, and with NO obligation. The book is one of the best I have seen to be a short education on self defense law. ITS FREE GUYS. 20 pages of great info. MarkS, you can weigh your incident with true knowledge on the S D Law. You can see why your salute could be detrimental to your case. Get the book guys. FREE

When the guns in restaurants issue was still in question a few years back I had a discussion with people against it. They talked about people getting mad and disagreements escalating etc. Having a gun I think makes things more apt to be let go. At least for me. I realize that getting too heated can lead to things that I don't want to happen. My wife tends to let her finger and horn get a lot of use. I don't care for it at all. She forgets how crazy some people are.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/15/703665710/police-officer-cant-pull-over-driver-for-giving-him-the-finger-court-rules

Somewhere I bet there is another driver rethinking his actions, and hope he also has seen the light of not escalating a non event into a life changing one. I recently drove back from Denver, and am heading back there tomorrow, and have encountered some very rude drivers. One passed into my lane, on purpose, within inches of my vehicle even though traffic was light. I almost honked at him but decided not to as I did not want to escalate the situation even though I was well armed. You never know what the other guy has going through his head, they may be looking for any excuse to be confrontational, it's best not to indulge them with any actions unless there is no other choice.

Soldiers of the 10th Mountain Division at the U.S. training in mountaineering

China is the largest threat our country faces. If our dip#### politicians are successful in disarming us, either because China is controlling their puppet strings directly or indirectly, we are screwed. Never forget that Japan was fearful of our "rifles behind every blade of grass" during WWII. So is China.

Newly acquired M&P. Accuracy is on par with my other 2.0s, that is to say, excellent.

I open my den door & go: "Yep...... that's a f#@&k load of guns!"

Sadly, no. I’ve had some decent play money, but not $50k of play money. It does have a binary trigger installed. The poor man’s facsimile.