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Ran across this on another site, thought you might get a kick out of.   :D   For those that don't know about history ... Here is a condensed version:   Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.   The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel.The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:   1 . Liberals 2. Conservatives.   Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed.   Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BBQ at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the    Conservative movement...   Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly BBQ's and doing the sewing,fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the    Liberal movement.   Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. They became known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.   Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass for obvious reasons.   Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat.   Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Bud or Miller. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, engineers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline pilots and generally anyone who works productively.   Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.   Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America .   They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing. Scumbags.

Was watching video on the Million Vet March and of course Bob sticks his two cents in but check out the identifier at the bottom! Link here so you can watch the video yourselves http://video.foxnews.com/v/2740298364001/wwii-vets-rally-in-washington-dc-against-slimdown/

There is, return charity completely to the private sector where it belongs. Government is wholly incapable of successfully engaging in charity. The correct definition of charity renders it as a synonym of love. Government cannot love, only individuals can love. Charity is far more than cutting a check to someone in need, it is becoming a part of their life and loving them back to wholeness. I think many folks like the idea of government welfare because it allows them to be self righteous and say they care for people in need without actually having to come face to face with those in need and give deeply and painfully from their own pockets to provide for others' lack.

Confessions of an EBT Leech   In January I was averaging slightly less than a thousand bucks a week before taxes. Then I tore a quad tendon and a few weeks later (after wok comp. kicked in) had about six hundred fifty bucks a week coming in. Then, on March 15th, while on "hawk patrol" in our back yard (my wife had left the door of the chicken run open and the hawks were having a heyday with our bantys), I became the reluctant recipient of a self-actuated adventitious ballistically induced subcutaneous astragalus aperture (my left knee buckled and as I stumbled, I accidentally shot myself in the freakin' ankle with a .357mag rifle - been around guns literally all my life and it's not supposed to happen, but sometimes it just does). Anyway - BANG - six surgeries, several weeks in the hospital and ZERO income from April until the second week in July when I was able to start working part time in our office, making about a hundred eighty bucks before taxes. Since then, I've missed three weeks of work because my wife contracted viral meningitis in mid August and spent a week in the hospital and then needed 24 hour care for a couple of weeks afterwards and there was no one else to help.   Man, talk about being damned glad to be one of those weirdo prepper types! We had enough food set by to get us through quite a spell, but we went through our savings pretty quickly just trying to keep heart & soul together and purchasing "specialty items" that I needed that insurance wouldn't cover.   One of the members here spread the word while I was still in the hospital and a collection was taken and, as much as I detest accepting "charity" of any kind, the money couldn't have come at a better time. I know I haven't thanked the members and friends here on TGO nearly enough and I'd like to take this opportunity to once again thank everyone for the words of support and their donations when I was at my lowest, both physically and mentally. Mere words cannot begin to express the depth of gratitude and humility I continue to feel for the outpouring of support.       I said all that to say this: I'm not out to chew anyone's ass and I agree with some of what has been said here so far and there was a time when I, myself, thought that everyone who received food stamps or an EBT card was lazy and no account and just needed to get off their butts and get a job...   Then all of a sudden I had no choice but to apply for EBT myself. I haven't been able to buy beer or cigarettes or even a hot rotisserie chicken from the grocery store like a bunch of people seem to think. We can't buy gas, batteries, hot nachos, or even freakin' toilet paper. I applied for (and was rejected by)  Social Security Disability - figured since I'd paid into it all these years, I'd take a little out until I could get back on my feet (no pun intended). NO ONE wants me to get back to being a productive member of society as much as I do. And as I type this I still don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to work full time. And we're still getting by on less than two hundred bucks a week.   I agree that there are a lot of abuses to the system. I've heard radio talk show hosts go on and on about the worthless EBT card leeches stocking up on steak and pork chops at the end of the month. And I was outraged right along with them. Then I had to become one of those worthless leeches myself. And I found out a few things. I'm not going to bother to share what I've learned here because I've read this thread and I'm beginning to doubt that it would make any difference.   And no, it doesn't look like I've missed many meals. Part of that is because, thanks to careful planning on the part of my wife and myself, I haven't. And part of it is because I still can't get around well enough to get the physical exercise I need to get myself back into decent shape.    There's more I could say, but I won't bother because it won't change any minds and besides I've got to worm my way under the house and work on a water leak that I can't afford to pay a plumber to work on, so I'll leave you with this:   There are a lot of abuses to the system. Not nearly as many as people seem to think, but they do exist. I'm sorry that I'm one of the leeches who uses EBT. If it's any consolation, I haven't bought any ammo, guns or fishing gear since before I got hurt. Every cent I make goes back into our household and I've even been forced to sell off some pretty dear possessions to keep the lights on...   I just pray that none of the gloaters here ever have to eat their words and become an EBT or SSI leech. Believe me, it's not only not fun, it's humiliating and degrading and top of everything else, you get to listen to people you used to respect talk about how worthless you are and what a drain on society you are. Oh sure, they won't mean you, personally, but that's only because they don't know you're an EBT leech. When they find out, they'll feel sorry for you and pity you and become conciliatory...   ...and that's even worse.     :(

Went down and talked to the guy living out of his pickup. Pretty nice guy. Turns out he's homeless because he chooses to be - Well, actually what he said was that he could get 3 hots and a cot if he wanted, but that would require doing something against the law to the woman he's been married to for the past ten years (and is now separated from) and he chose not to go that particular route no matter how much he feels she deserves it.   Thanked me profusely for the noodles and the coffee pot - he's in a tight spot right now because his employer cut back his hours to avoid having to offer him healthcare and he refuses to not pay his bills and hasn't been able to find an extra job to make up for the lost wages. Told him I could relate.   Asked him if he'd thought about or applied for food stamps or EBT. He said he'd rather starve than be labeled as one of the moocher class. Told him I understood perfectly then I admitted that his noodles had been purchased with an EBT card. Told him lots of folks don't understand how the rules have changed and that it's not as easy to get and keep as it used to be. He said Yeah? What about the guy with the fancy cedar walking stick and new blue jeans he saw in Walmart with a pocket full of cash and using an EBT card? I told him it might've been me - bought the jeans before my accident and hadn't been able to wear 'em out much... spent 3 months in the recliner with my foot propped up and used the time to make the walking stick in hopes of someday using it to walk. Had the cash in my pocket because I'd just sold a pair of custom made cowboy boots I bought a couple of years ago and couldn't wear anymore thanks to surgery number six which permanently fused my left ankle. Explained that Walmart was on the way to the power company and I didn't think that leaving the cash in the car was a real good frickin' idea. He said he reckoned that maybe things weren't always what they seemed after all. Told him yeah, but good luck convincing anybody else of that.   Nice guy. Enjoyed talking with him. Told him to go ahead and apply for assistance - the way the system works and the way things have changed, he'd probably be back to sh*ttin' in tall cotton before he got approved, if he got approved (it took six months for us). Told him I'd bring him some more noodles next week and not to worry about the stigma, if anyone said anything tell 'em it was my taxes that went to feed him - theirs had been used up funding a study of the sex life of the Abyssinian crotch cricket and if they didn't want to fund stuff like that they'd better quit voting for the ******* idiots who keep giving away their tax dollars for stuff like that...   Learned some things today. Reckon I'm richer for the knowledge so I guess that classifies the day as a success in my book. Hope everyone else had a successful day, too.   :hat:   ...TS...

Identifier looks correct to me. He is, after all, a Dumba$$.

Here's the deal, there's a huge difference between someone who needs assistance and someone who wants "entitlements". Those words mean and imply very, very different things, yet both are often used to describe the same thing. Someone who needs assistance is a person who intends to take care of their own responsibilities at some point. A person who wants entitlements has no desire to achieve self sustaining income or pay their own way; after all, they're ENTITLED to free chow from the gubmint. These are the people I'm speaking of. They've never had a job, never provided for themselves or their own children. They are not people, they are animals with sub-human characteristics. Maybe not even animals, since animals would take care of themselves and find food when hungry rather than sitting around waiting for someone else to provide it. At any rate, those people are not having bad luck, they are simply lazy and entitled. They are not human.

Thanks for sharing your story. I hope that your situation improves in the immediate future. I tend to believe that there are more stories like yours as opposed to people enjoying the substandard living that comes with being on government assistance. I believe that it makes some people feel better patting themselves on the back because thru proper preparation or sheer luck they haven't found themselves at the mercy of people like themselves. No matter how highly we think of ourselves and our abilities it can always be stripped away and we my need to depend on the kindness of strangers, forum members or God forbid the government. I refuse to lump the recipiants of government assistance into a monolithic group of leeches, because that's as crazy as some of the negative labels placed on responsible gun owners after a wack job goes on a shooting spree.

The Scripture I posted was never meant to insult those that cannot work.....it is meant to slap those that will not work. I grew up in a military family where everyone pulled their own weight and slacking off was not allowed. Illness and injury are not slacking off....laziness and sloth are....as they are acts of will.

If nothing else, he deserved to be shot for trying to ride a bike while wearing flip flops.

I worked in the grocery business for 10 plus years (I am a butcher). Foodstamp abuse runs rampant in every store I ever worked in.  There are some people who really do need the assistance, but in the areas where I worked (11 different stores, for the same company) there was very little "need".  The are several stories I could share, but the one that sticks out in my mind the most involves a leather jacket.  I had been to the western store the week prior and they had a leather jacket that was just in. It was the most beautiful jacket I had ever seen, and it cost $450!  I knew I couldn't afford it, so I drooled and left.  The next week, I was taking a break and went to buy a soda and candy bar up front.  The guy standing in front of me had on the very jacket that I had seen. I commented on how nice it was and that I hoped the price would go down once it wasn't so new.  He replied "yea, it's nice" and turned back around to purchase the groceries.  Imagine my surprise when this guy pulls out a EBT card to pay for his groceries! It sickened me to think he had $450 for a jacket but he didn't have $50 for groceries!   I believe when a community has a member in need, it is the shared responsibility of that community to step in and assist. I have seen this done many times in many ways.  When my mother in law's husband walked out after 30 years of marriage with crops in the field waiting to be cultivated and animals needing to be attended, a large group of friends and family, myself included, stepped in and did what had to be done.  No one asked for anything in return, we did it because there was a need in our community. This is how I believe our creator intended. I believe in "you don't work, you don't eat", but that does not address "you can't work".    I am thankful for the EBT program when it helps someone who "can't" work. i despise it when it helps someone who "won't".

I have never seen a person swipe an EBT who looked like they missed any meals, ever. Meanwhile, I'm feeding my kids. Last I checked that was a parental responsibility, not the gubmint.

All I have to say is.....2 Thessalonians 3:10....wish we would adopt that.

Can't tell you the number of students I have who can't afford to eat but have iPods and smartphones. Grr....

I've been looking into having a couple of rifles ceracoated but wasn't completely sure what I wanted. Rather than spend the money to have something done that I wasn't sure about I decided to take it into my own hands. I bought $10 worth of flat camo paint (used less than half), grabbed some cedar trimmings and a scrap of hardware cloth and went to it. I will admit that it was hard to pull the trigger on the paint so I closed my eyes and made a quick pass. Once there was some paint on the rifle it got really easy. Here are a few pics, [URL=http://s303.photobucket.com/user/lukeduke_03/media/fe8f3073-c323-4189-bfd4-49745dab95c8.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s303.photobucket.com/user/lukeduke_03/media/Mohawkpaint4.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s303.photobucket.com/user/lukeduke_03/media/Mohawkpaint2.jpg.html][/URL]

Large donations are much more important than polls to a politician.

Confiscation is a whole lot more than political poison. It's when the fight gets real.

That's a reasonable opinion. As for people having high dollar material items in their homes that doesn't bother me because there are too many variables that come into play. For example grandmother worked for forty years and is now retired. Divorced daughter with kids on government assistance moves in and brings items from the marriage to granny's house. Are they no longer allowed to have nice things because the mother now has a need for assistance? I could give examples all day. My point is is that many of us because we have busted our humps to be successful tend to deny the benefit of doubt to those not like us. It's easy to cast a broad net. Nice engaging with you guys again. My battery is almost dead. Cya later.

I worked as a cashier at Walmart for long enough to get a decent cross section of folks on various forms of government assistance. I would also like to believe that it is the minority, and not the majority, of folks on government assistance who abuse the system, but that simply isn't true. We say not to judge a book by its cover, but stereotypes tend to be real time savers. There is no single thing that absolutely identifies a person as a blood sucking leech on the rest of us, but more the totality of evidence. For example, there are a number of indicators that tip a person off as to the character of the person they're dealing with. The immediate indicator being how they dress. This is one of the quickest ways since many people choose the clothes they wear to fit the identity they have for themselves. Of course, this isn't an absolute. My grandfather worked outdoors and was always grungy, when we'd stop into the store. So then there is the way they carry themselves and the way they talk. The simple gestures, or lack of gestures one makes. Like when I say, "how are you doing today" and they ignore you like you aren't there. These are just samples of what I'm talking about when I'm classifying one of these useless people on my mind. Usually within a few seconds you get an idea for the type of person they are. The type of person who has never had a job, or if they did they didn't have it long. They have a sense of entitlement about them, to the point that they treat YOU like a lesser because you're the guy behind the counter, when I'm actually superior to them because I'd logged more hours on the clock as a 17 year old then they have their entire lives. There is no excuse for the existence of those people. Unfortunately, the sexy siren call of government handouts seduces these personality types, and they flock to it. I don't believe that government assistance programs cause this problem, I believe it simply attracts the kind of people who otherwise would be living in shanty towns or under a bridge somewhere until they died of simple diseases before they're 30. The existence of these programs allows for these people to live in better conditions than what they otherwise would, and live longer than they otherwise should. Anyone who is receiving government assistance, who intend not to be, should be enraged most by these people, as they are sucking off the resources designed to get you back on your feet. They are sucking off resources that aren't designed for them. From what I have encountered, the majority are leeches who never worked for any length of time and have no intention of ever working. Just stroll into a Walmart and watch people for a while.

Well, now that I've pissed everyone off... :rofl:   As I've said, I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I personally share in the opinion that a hand up shouldn't be given (nor taken) as a handout. And again abuse is rampant, but again - and I mention this from first hand observation - it's not as rampant as those who've never had to rely upon it seem to believe.   I lumped myself in with the leeches because the overall tone of this thread didn't really make much of a distinction.   I mean, to read a blanket statement like "I have never seen a person swipe an EBT who looked like they missed any meals, ever." and a few other things I've seen in this thread, kinda' makes a person feel like he's already been stuck in the same category. And it doesn't make a damned bit of difference how hard he/she may or may not have worked before, during or after. How would you know? Have you ever taken the time to actually talk to one of these lowlifes?   I'm not defending the guy with the $450.00 jacket although I had to put $300.00 worth of fancy footwear on a credit card recently and then tack another $80.00 on for modification of said footwear in the hopes of someday being able to walk again. (So far it hasn't helped and I may end up maxing out my credit card on orthotics to that end.)   Maybe I'm taking things too personally. But maybe... you know what? Never mind. I decided a long time ago that if I wasn't going to get off my ass and work to change something then I didn't have any business bitching about it.   In fact, I got a great deal on Ramen noodles earlier this week and I know of a guy not far away who's living out of his pickup and might not have been able to stock up, so I think I'll go shoot the #### with him and give him some noodles and an old coffee pot to boil water in...   :leaving:  :surrender:    

  Thank you tnguy, as you may have stated the view I hold better and more tactfully than I can. I won't make personal judgements against an individual as we must all make (and live with) our own choices in life. What I will say on the subject is this: Charity is a good and wonderful thing to be encouraged as it is beneficial to the giver and the receiver. The government taking at gunpoint from one person and giving it to another is not charity, it is legalized plunder and it is immoral on its face. If I don't have the right to use force to rob someone of the benefits of their industry, I can't vote to grant that right to the government to do it on my behalf. 

I found this odd as well, since an overwhelming majority of violent crime, gang activity and drug dealing in Los Angeles County is committed by white people; one would think there wouldn't be such a disproportionate amount of bites on minorities. Strange.

My favorite image so far is this one of the demonstrators purportedly using the Barrycades to block off the park police and keep them at bay.

I don't get it either. The gun is in a bag so no contact with water, loaded and basically at 32 degrees. So what is the point? I have loaded and shot guns outdoors at much lower temps then that, in much worse conditions with just oiled rails.

Love this photo.   http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/13/developing-veterans-storm-washington-d-c-vetmarch/

it will affect the hunters like us long term in 2 ways. Our fees we paid in this year that they were using for whatever they chose to, if refunded, will cause a dramatic increase in the price of license fees over the next few years. I'm not talking the $1-$5 range. I'm betting a $10-20 increase. I see them having no issue charging $150 for the sportsmans license before long. Looks like I'll be saving for my lifetime license. Luckily I bought my sons his when he was 2! Second way is all the quota hunts will either go up in price, or they will do away with them due to "funding". Not sure how much it takes to run a quota hunt, since I have been on lots and not seen any increased amenities or breakfast buffets anywhere I've hunted.

How much money could we trim from the fed budget if we shut down the EBT/STARS system EVERY weekend, making them do all their shopping on weekdays while their benefactors are working. I know I'd appreciate shorter lines at Kroger/Walmart on Saturdays and Sundays.

Hey now! Not all of us unlimited data snobs are bad people.  :yuck:

Amen to that. I come from a big family, and we got by on very little a lot of the time. It made us thankful for the times we had more. Way too many people nowadays THINK they have to have all of the extras all the time. I'm proud of everyday that we all had together, and if/when the SHTF, I know my family and friends who were raised like us, will be easily adapted to getting by since we've done it. The last thing I'll be worried about is buying lottery tickets or getting a phone with unlimited data. Even now, we don't have tons of money set back like I'd like to have. But we are happy, and healthy. Hell, these people complaining eat better than we do and don't and won't work for their own.

I read this as well, The Blaze had a few tweets about it. I to have had to make a few tuff choices on Thursday, ya know, no gas, no food, no drink and 10 dollars left in the wallet. Spend money on gas to get to work  Friday. Now it has been years since I had to worry about to many days and not enough money. As I work EVERYDAY I can and them some.

It affected me. I've had to endure copious amounts of pointless bitchin'. It's the only thing 99.7 super talk radio talks about. It's just like wheni was a kid and the president was on. Is on every channel! I'm to the point where I really don't care if the power company goes out there and pulls the meter at the White House and the bank ( of china no less!!!) puts a lock on the door. Screw em. Weak animals make meals for the strong. I'll be glad when we as a people stop sheltering this thing and put it down so we can restart/rebuild and get back to some semblance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There will never be happiness with the current regime who take STEAL from me because I decided I need to work for what's mine and give it to some lazy ghetto trash cuz somebudy gots to pay to raise my babies! I got a match, who's got some gas?

It's not english, but the message is clear. Don't steal.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrHtCuQsCw

A change I would suggest, and STRONGLY advocate is the legalization of car carry for those who cannot obtain a HCP (due to age, or just don't want it).  If you have the right to have a loaded firearm in your home, you ought to be able to keep it in your vehicle.  TN law is so ambiguous when it comes to transporting firearms, this would just make it a much simpler affair.  Not being able to obtain a HCP due to age, I struggle with the immediate vicinity phrasing of TN law.  When something such as that is not defined by law, it worries me.  What I consider to be not in the immediate vicinity, and a police officer consider immediate vicinity could be two different things, and would just add a layer of protection to pro-2A citizens.  Considering most, if not all states surrounding TN allow it, I believe it is time that TN allow the 18-20 y/o pro-2A citizens to be able to legally carry in their vehicle.  What are your thoughts on something like this?

Well that rifle is broken in as far as round count goes but it didn't have a blemish on it. I just decided that since I buy guns for my enjoyment and not for the next man's, I would do to it whatever I wanted lol. Now before someone goes out and just starts spraying their guns I will say that I had several pieces of painted base moulding I pulled out of the house during the remodel and I practiced with branches, twigs and everything painting on them first. Then I moved up to a couple GI mags and then I started on the gun. I watched some YouTube videos and thought that looks easy enough but I am really glad that I practiced on other stuff first. There's nothing hard about it but figuring out close or far to hold the twigs and what not away when spraying to get the desired results took a little playing around. The way that I did mine ended up that the base color is 90% of the paint with the remaining being the green accents. I did enjoy it for sure though.

It appears the media got it right for once.

This is happening LIVE right now http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mlr13

I dunno, gun collage can be darn cool: :) - OS

...and not a f*** was given this day.

Timestepper, you seem like a hard-working and forward-thinking person. Maybe if the money for this program (which, by the way, not only goes to those in need but also to the vast army of government workers who have to administer this program and a bunch of other things besides) hadn't been taken from the wages you'd earned over the years, you would have had enough put-by not to have to go to the government, cap-in-hand.   You say you don't like to accept charity, which I understand (though a wise man knows to accept help when he needs it and pays it back or forward as he is able) but EBT is so much worse, depending not on the kindness of strangers but extraction of their wealth by force.   Though I am very much a hate the game, not the player type person. The welfare state in this country is trapping millions into destitution and I think it's a crying shame for those people.

I don’t know what your budget is, but you might want to take a look at the S&W 617 revolver. It’s a full size K-frame stainless revolver, but since it’s a round butt you can put some pretty small grips on it if need be. It would last him a lifetime and he could pass it down to his kids. It’s one of the highest quality, most accurate, and most sought after 22’s on the market.

  The government is acting like they own us, like they are the Parent, nanny state and all. It is not looked upon with favor to be INDEPENDENT of FedGov. I am reminded of the line in V for Vendetta...."We need to remind them why THEY need US!"........My rights come from God. My family is my responsibility. The government is the servant not me or mine. We need to remind them of that.

Its obvious East, that I believe that in the absence of freedom & liberty, there is tyranny, where as you believe that in the absence of tyranny there is anarchy. I believe that the Constitution is the highest laws of the land, you believe local ordinances have the authority to over-ride it. It sounds as if we have polar opposite views on the matter, I doubt we'd ever come to an agreement, but it was entertaining to read your thoughts on the matter so thanks for the chat man. JayC, very well said (as usual)!

NO, NO, NO let a few of us come over, take the mantel down and let us throw them to make them stick into the wood mantel.

All I can tell ya is, DO NOT SQUEAL LIKE A PIG! :rofl:

Somebody's already did and they shoveled it up and put it in the White House.

Thanks for the replies. I did have the up and down part scribed but I made an assumption ( there is that word again ) on the front to back part. Anyone wanna guess that I am probably .040 off??? Oh well, off it comes again in the morning. I take solace in the fact that for every dumb question I ask and every mistake I make there is at least one TGO'er that will learn from that for their upcoming builds. Tis a good thing I got over being embarrassed a long time ago... Mark

I depend on tourism from the Great Smoky Mountains National Park for my income.  Needless to say it is affecting me financially.  I do have to agree with Caster though.  I'll go wait tabes if I have to, it pisses me off that people, myself included, can no longer use the park but we do need to quit coddling this thing and let it die.  If this government were a human being on life support any person with a shred of compassion would have pulled the plug long ago.

No matter what they did the Republicans would and are being blamed for everything. When they quite worrying about being everybody's buddy (including the Dems and Obama) and start actually living by the principals they claim, they will win and the polls will still show them loosing. :shake:  Polls are propaganda of the media and we all know their agenda is never to back a republican, especially a conservative.   I mean come on, they are still blaming Bush for stuff.

I went to Pearl Harbor today got to go on the Missori no problem I then tried to go to the Arizona Memorial but because I was not a part of a Japaese tour group Iwas not allowed on as it is closed by the shut down unless you are part of a tour group It was very upsetting to see 100s of Japanse and Chinasse visiting one of the most hallowed memorials in America but Americans not allowed to go

What's the point?