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Y'all should be embarrassed.  This may be the first mention of Celine Dion on a gun forum - ever.  

Well yeah they can...question is will they? They seem to do nothing but collect their checks and benefits anymore. I have no faith in any of them to do the right thing about anything.

I set out today to go buy the new Ruger American pistol. My local shop had one for trials and rental . Now I gve most brands the benefit of the doubt and so I was all set to buy it . My friend that works there gave me the new Ruger and some ammo and told me to go shoot it. I took it to the range there . Now guys I am an old country boy so I may not use the correct terms here .  The trigger and reset were just almost not there. I could barely feel where the trigger resets and it is hardly audible at all. The trigger had to go almost all the way forward to reset itself. I beleive if you rapidly fired this pistol you would easily "short-stroke" the trigger and it wouldn't fire. The trigger pull feels like one of those stress balls that you squeeze where the rubber is very soft . It almost seems like the striker barely has enough power to pierce the primer.  I love the feel of the gun . The rear of the grip where it meets your thumbs when firing did not bother me at all . I know a lot of people have said this bites their thumb knuckle , but it did not bother me at all. Accuracy was good . Recoil was good.  I have shot Glocks for 20 years and carried one on my job for 18 yrs so I am very used to how they work. I also shoot a S&W M&P9 . Both have a good positive trigger and reset . And as some of you guys know , I am a huge fan of Ruger's old P-Series pistols . I still have a few that I shoot regulary. The big ole fat and ugly ones but even they have better triggers than this new Ruger . I also noticed that when I took this new Ruger's slide off that it has no conventional trigger bar like Glock and the M&P has . It was very new to me and I did not undertsand it's "guts" as comapared to what I am used to.  So I decided to keep my money and just wait it out. I was sssoooooo set on getting this pistol. I still hope it does well and I may eventually get one , but I am gonna wait it out for a while and see if Ruger does anything with this trigger. The shop said that they are going to keep running this pistol on the rental range and not clean it to see how well it does. I am anxious to see how it does too.  Guys I didn't mean to jabber on and on but I thought I'd share my experience that I had today. Like I said , I will hold out for Ruger to see if they "upgrade" this trigger and/or fix or change anything else.  Until then if I see an old P90 in .45ACP in great shape  I may just buy it instead :cool:  Have a great day guys /gals

Update: Daisy (Dolly didn't stick) went to the vet today. She did great. A little scared but she did awesome. First and most important and what I was terrified of, she is heartworm negative!! Yay! She weighs 58.4 lbs and she did have hook and round worms. We got a years supply of heartworm prevention, Drontal to kill what worms she does have and all vaccines necessary. She did great! Just thought people might enjoy an update with everything else going on.

Not to bust on this as I think it's fine, but change.org has never changed a thing in its existence.  Even at 100,000 votes, they will just say "ok, thanks".    The executive and legislative branches know the view of gun owners.  Our effort is better focused on elections and politicians than a website where nothing will happen.  Just my  :2cents: .  

In reality, he isn't changing anything on background checks.  This is nothing more than facetime.     I will admit, I see the same guys at gunshows all of the time with tables who are obviously trying to make money and have personal collection on their tables.  While it may be for a hobby, I do think it skirts the intent of the law.  If you can go to a gun show every weekend and get a table to sell guns, I think you are in the business of selling guns.     For the normal Joe Schmoe who walks around with a single gun, nothing changes.

Divorce and alimony is a hell of an expensive and desperate thing I suppose... Picked up a BNIB Glock 19 Gen 4 and a very mildly used CZ97B (I love CZs now) for the low low low cost of half a Grand and a 500 pack of 185gr Xtreme bullets Damn I love that CZ. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Where were his tears after Americans died at Benghazi?

He's wrong.  I don't care if he is a judge or not.  Being a judge doesn't make you any smarter.  Go read the laws and any EO's.  You have to be in the "business" of selling guns.  That is already defined and Obama isn't changing it.  The "livelyhood" provision still remains.  I am referring the the guy who sells a gun periodically, not someone who has a table at every gun show.   At the end of the day, do what you feel is best, but I will sell guns and I will not do a background check.  I will ask to see ID, ask if they are a felon, and tell them to have a nice day so long as something else doesn't concern me.  That is the law for an individual seller, no REASONABLE suspicion someone should not own a gun.

"NOT COCAINE" seems legit lol

+1 on the Perry suspenders.  I like them because they hook onto my belt without having to sew buttons into all my pants.  When I can support my belt (and the load it's carrying) my pants stay up just fine!   Plus my belt feels much better when it's not pulled so tight.    Got some crazy patterns too.  If you can't have fun wearing these you just can't have fun.

And the wait is officially over. Picked her up today. Pics below. Some of you have seen me post some info about a custom rimfire benchrest gun I am having built. It has been done for a few weeks, but I have been waiting on ammo testing to be done. Well, today was the day for results. I haven't even seen the gun, but I at least know it will shoot. 40 shot group at 50 meters came in at 15.3mm edge to edge. As you can see, the 10 shots groups were a bit smaller. I am sure it is going to outshoot me, I just hope I can learn to read the wind well enough to complete. I had some groups down in the 11mm range in some other lots, but there was also an almost 19mm group in that same lot. This one was most consistent overall. I will add some pics of the gun when it gets here. Should have it in hand on Friday if all goes well. I pretty excited right now. When I get the bill for the case of ammo, my enthusiasm may be diminished :eek: .

https://www.botach.com/e-lander-ar15-m4-30rd-steel-magazines/ I know a lot of folks don't like/trust Botach. That's fine. I've made multiple orders, saved a ton, and always gotten first quality product in a reasonable amount of time. If you don't like them, don't click the link. :-) As for the mags, these are Israeli E-Landers mags. I have a bunch and love them. They are akin to GI mags, but made of steel. They utilize super smooth tilt-free followers. They're heavier and STUPID tough! If you like the flex and rebound of poly mags, you'll HATE these! I bought 5 more of these around black friday when Makodefense.com had them for around $14 ea and free shipping. Prior to that I had paid almost $19 for them. I couldn't pass up this deal and ordered another drawer full. I know Bummer's gun control push seems to have no teeth and is not an attack on mag limits, etc. That never stopped panic buying before. Regardless of his Oscar performance today, I'd still have bought these. But... I'm not gunna lie... I feel even better about my purchase since his talk. Btw, they ship free with no minimum so even if you just want to try one, they'll send one right to your door for under $10. If you haven't used one of these before, I really recommend it. I like to leave mags loaded, and have problems with some various poly mags popping rounds every now and then. Not so with these monsters!

  As an informed clicker, what's your angle on this? A newcomer who feels the need to "rattle our cages". That's a serious question... as I wouldn't join a community to immediately point out how I felt other communities were better in my opinion.   I'm not signing it because:   A.) Spam ahoy B.) It's entirely unstructured, it's just a rant about "don't touch mah guns"... maybe it needs to be about specific callouts like unconstitutional embargo's on weapons import? Or the up coming EO's? and finally C.) He called them assault rifles......  :rant:  :rant:  :rant:

Ok, there are other physical differences.   ALL long actions will be the same regardless of when they were made. That is all the stocks interchange between long action guns. But, there always is a but, there is a difference in barrel shanks for those of you that plan on swapping barrels. The long actions can have either a large shank or a small shank but 90% of them are going to be small shank barrels.   For short actions there are differences as well. Actions made before ~2006 will have a action screw spacing of 4.27" while actions made after that will have action screw spacing of 4.40". This matters if you plan on swapping stocks. ALL short actions that have a flat rear receiver, like a R700, will be 4.27". Round back actions will be 4.27" or 4.40", depending on when they were made. Basically anything after 2006 will be 4.40". Additionally some short actions also have large shank barrels but they are extremely rare and the odds of finding one is about the same as hitting the powerball.   The only two 100% reliable ways to tell whether a gun has the newer 4.40" spacing is this. If it has a cocking indicator at the rear of the bolt it will ALWAYS be the new action. And if the bolt release lever is under the gun and not on the side then it will be a 4.40" gun. But, if it doesn't have a cocking indicator it does not mean it is a new action.   I have heard people say another way to tell a new action from an old action is the accutrigger but that is not 100% correct. It is mostly correct but not all accutrigger guns will be 4.40".   And finally, do not assume that if it is bought new it will be the later, better, action because I have bought brand new Savages 10 years after they were produced as new guns.   Guns that have the accustock ALWAYS are the new 4.40" receiver. But that does not matter because it uses a unique recoil lug making it impossible to swap stocks unless you disassemble the gun and install a traditional recoil lug.   None of this matters if you are buying it to leave it completely stock.   And why would any of this matter? Because if you buy a Savage made before ~2006 and it has an issue Savage will NOT honor their lifetime warranty. Even if it is a manufacturer's defect they refuse to send parts, accept it for repair or do anything to correct the issue. That is because in ~2006 Savage was sold off and the new owners are refusing to honor any previously made guns. Additionally, parts for the earlier gun are very hard to find on the secondary market. You can modify the newer parts to work on the older guns but it requires experience to know what must be done to make them safe.     The Savage Axis/Edge is a completely different action and the ONLY thing that will interchange is the barrels.   And finally, if anyone has any questions regarding Savages feel free to send me a PM. I am intimately familiar with the Savage action and what it takes to get them to shoot better than they already do. I have tweaked factory guns and the results are sub .4" groups at 100 yards using all factory parts.   Give me a call sometime Kevin so we can discuss. Also, next time you come out I will show you what to look for.

You got lucky by being able to actually shoot it before you bought it. Things aren't always what they seem sometimes. Maybe they will work the trigger down the road a bit. Great review by the way. :up:

We can agree to disagree.  He is wrong and just pandering to the Fox audience, but that is just one man's opinion.

Good lord BHO is a douche. Am I the only one that gets irritated seeing him leaning over the podium and just the way he handles him self in general while giving these speeches? It's like he is sitting at the kitchen table shooting the sh.t.

This is pretty strong...   http://www.allenbwest.com/2016/01/president-obama-before-you-make-your-gun-announcement-today-you-better-read-this/

I see nothing new in these EO as any new laws, but merely enforcing current laws.  Looks like the media firestorm to stir up people is worse than the EO!   I broke them down from my perspective: The so called closing the gun show loop law looks like nothing more than enforcing what is already on the books, maybe just tightening down and scrutinizing more who qualifies as in engaged in the business as opposed to someone who trades and sells every now and then with quantity and frequency as leading indicators.  Suggestion:  As to not help the government, I do recommend sites like Gunbroker and maybe even here, I would do away with the tracking of Positive Feedback numbers as this could be used as a indicator of transactions.  Not sure what would replace it, or even if its needed. The NFA trust (which I know very little about) looks like adding background check, which I assume is the same as TICS or the national version.  Requiring states to provide records and work cooperatively might titter on a new law, but may be nothing more than a "please request" vs. "requirement".    The improving of the efficiency of the background check should be a given, not just a memo from the president.  This will likely be where the no fly list people meet up with the can't buy a gun list.  Problem, the no fly list is secret and how does one get on that list is not public. The theft and loss comment, well when I was a FFL, it was a requirement to report such things, I remember I had a couple of thefts and had to report those.  Not sure why this needed a memo as well.  The reminder memo on domestic violence, no problem here, again just a memo.  The reporting of mental health  to the background check system might titter on a new law qualifier, but I admit I know nothing about mental health reporting, but do know that HIPAA cannot be violated without new legislation.  What really concerns me the most with these EO is the Social Security crackdown on grandpas.  Meaning if grandpa cannot run his own affairs, they will take his guns.  A play from VA administration.  To me this is the biggy out of all of these.  The new gun safety research and push, I would recommend going to 60 minutes website and reviewing one of their stories from October/November timeframe.  Though it sounds good, in the end, it could be undermining all existing guns as per the NRA. Example if proven and reliable which is a another problem, the story could be made that only new technology guns should be in the hands of society therefore requiring all guns without the technology to be turned in. 

I spent the past 7 days in Jackson Hole, Wyoming + had the pleasure of exploring the Grand Teton National Park with my newly engaged fiancee. We spent the greater majority of our time exploring the Grand Teton National Park, the National Elk Refuge, snowboarding at the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort, + most importantly, eating! Mormon Row Historic District x Grand Teton National Park x Grand Tetons x Jackson Hole, Wyoming

  The standard that must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt is in post 109. If you fit that, well...   I have always thought and even said here that if one turns as many firearms per year as some I see, one should document where the bucks went to cover ass just in case.   - OS

Well I do like Chinese food, and those chickens would make good pets. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I wore a pair of perry suspenders just like these ones between a white tshirt and whatever other shirt I was wearing for a while. It was quite comfy and handy not to have to tighten my belt so tight.   Don't know why I quit wearing them. I think I'll wear them to work tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

Casting my vote here

  Well, we both mentioned it, mine was just more succinct so it stuck. :)   - OS

We're only 5 days into the year, I'm sure someone will top this. :stir:  :hiding:

  But the plus side of all of this is you've now learned the importance of waiting until a new guns been on the market for at least six or eight months before buying it. I bought a few clunkers doing just that with the last one being a near first release S&W Sigma. That wasn't the first dud I got from S&W either. Now I look, think about it, look a few more times and most of the time by that point don't want it anymore.

I think you have her confused with Taylor Swift,lol. Adele could crush TS,both with vocals and physically :) My point earlier in this thread was it's usually in poor taste for one star to sing anothers song while the song is still near the top of the charts. I'm not talking about some Chinese guy karaoke to gangnam style and posting it youtube. This is a world known singer, doing a currently popular song,badly,and will take whatever publicity she can get from it to get back in the news.

Millions would disagree with you. She has one of the most amazing voices ever. If anyone hasn't heard of her, go listen to some of her songs before making up your mind.

https://youtu.be/CaK9bjLy3v4 Scroll to 2:00... that's exactly what I thought when I read your post, lol!

Steelharp is going to be devastated...

Why the hell did I click on this thread? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

    That's what passes as a "petition" these days?  Good luck getting anyone to take it seriously.

That section (and the specific wording is at the bottom of Page 19) is talking about the Proposed Rule.  The Final Rule changed what was originally proposed for CLEO signatures.  If you start looking at Page 25, you can see the ATF's analysis of the Proposed Rule and the responses they received to the Proposed Rule.  Page 32, under the Department's Response, it is clear that the ATF is changing from the proposed CLEO certification to a CLEO notice.   Yes, if you don't read federal rule making documents often, they can be hard to follow, particularly when they are 248 pages long.

A good breakdown/recap from the Virginia Citizens Defense League:    Before I begin my analysis, I’d like to point out that the number the President uses for deaths caused by the use (or misuse) of a firearm includes suicides (much more than half of the total) and lawful self-defense shootings by citizens and police.  Should suicide and lawful self-defense be considered “gun violence?”  No. ANALYSIS Much of the Executive Orders (EOs) really don’t change anything, but try to put a menacing or intimidating spin on them.  Others simply double-down on existing enforcement (yawn), some are bad, and one VCDL likes.  Here is what they really do (or don’t do). 1.  A dealer who sells guns exclusively over the internet or at gun shows is still a dealer and needs to have a license and do background checks.  This is a “yawn” as it is simply restating current law and how it has always been enforced.  Net effect: zero. 2.  There is no specific threshold on the number of guns sold, as to what makes you a dealer.  That has always been true.  The BATFE takes into consideration several factors in determining if you are just a person selling a few items from your private collection or if you are trying to earn a living, or part of a living, by buying and selling guns.  Here Obama tries to scare gun owners by saying that someone had been found to be in the business of selling firearms “when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, WHEN OTHER FACTORS ALSO WERE PRESENT” (emphasis mine).  Here he’s obviously found some obscure cases that must have had some unusual “other factors” that made it clear the person was actually selling guns for a living, even with a small number of sales.  This EO is implying that BATFE might be looking harder at people who sell guns regularly to make sure they are not really “in the business.” Other than trying to scare people by also pointing out the penalties for being in the business without a license, I don’t see this as changing the status quo on private sales at all.  Net effect: zero, but meant to intimidate people into not doing any private sales. 3.  Requiring everyone in an NFA trust to have a background check.  This will have ZERO effect on crime, as criminals are NOT setting up trusts to buy NFA items!  No one has been killed with a lawfully owned machine gun since the 1970s, when a police officer murdered his wife with one.  This is simply a waste of time - doing something just to do something.  Net effect: all those who are part of an NFA trust must have a background check. 4.  Push for states to include more mental health data.  Virginia has been doing this for a long time, predating the Virginia Tech massacre.  Net effect:  no effect on gun owners generally and no effect for Virginia gun owners at all. 5.  More NICS employees will be hired to make NICS checks quicker and available 24/7, which is fine with VCDL as it will make it faster to buy a gun through a dealer.  Net effect: positive because of quicker gun purchases. 6.  Centralize tracing bullets used in crime.  Net effect:  zero for gun owners. 7.  Step up investigating those who are illegally selling guns over the internet.  Net effect:  zero for gun owners. 8.  Clarify that dealers are to notify the  police about the loss or theft of guns.  Net effect: zero for gun owners and zero for gun dealers, who already do this anyhow. 9.  Direct U.S. Attorney’s Office to renew domestic violence outreach efforts.  This requires coordination with state and local police on domestic violence crime.  BUT it also requires coordination with “community groups focused on domestic violence.”  I do not trust giving such "community groups” special treatment by the government. Net effect:  no real change for gun owners. 10.  Get information from the Social Security Administration on mental health issues for the purpose of disqualifying some people from owning a gun.  Net effect:  this is DANGEROUS, as it can strip people of their right to own a gun WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. A very tiny minority of those with mental health issues are dangerous.  Just because you let someone else balance your checkbook doesn’t mean you should not be able to own a gun, but that’s what Obama is doing.  Obama is casting a huge net for the purpose of catching what actually boils down to a handful of people. 11.  Change HIPAA laws to allow states to share “certain” information from a person’s health records.  Net effect:  this is DANGEROUS, as it can strip people of the right to own a gun WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.  No cookie cutter, bureaucratically controlled, examination of a person’s medical records should be used to strip someone of any of their rights without DUE PROCESS! 12.  Encourage the development of “smart guns.”  If there is a market for “smart guns,” they will be developed with or without government help.  Hint:  if police, government agencies like the Secret Service, or the military don’t want smart guns, then they probably are not going to be successful.  Net effect:  none for gun owners, just government wasting more tax dollars on another boondoggle. ------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

  Recent "assault weapon/highcap mag" ban. They let it stand by not hearing it.   http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/08/us/supreme-court-will-not-hear-challenge-to-assault-weapons-ban-of-highland-park-ill.html?_r=0   - OS

SCOTUS doesn't just look at a law and say "Yea" or "Nay". A case has to be filed in a local state or federal court, then have the judgment appealed through all of the levels of the appellate system. The parties in the suit can then petition SCOTUS to hear their case. SCOTUS can't do much until all of those things happen. Then 4 or more of the 9 justices have to vote to hear the case. In addition, SCOTUS only hears cases to resolve a conflict in the law, are a result of a lower court disregarding a past SCOTUS ruling, are important, or are of some special interest to enough of the justices such as a case about a specific part of the law that they like (let's say several are former immigration lawyers then a case on immigration might get in before one on bankruptcy).   Here are two in the recent past that they did hear (and in fact decided in our favor): D.C. v. Heller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller McDonald v. City of Chicago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago   And two they have recently rejected: Friedman v. City of Highland Park. https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/07/scotus-refuses-to-hear-2nd-amendment-ass Jackson v. City and County of San Francisco Jackson v. City and County of San Franciscohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/06/09/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-second-amendment-case-over-dissent-of-two-justices/   As for SCOTUS hearing a case on gay marriage having a lesser Constitutional impact, that's very much a Constitutional issue. It goes to the 14th amendment and equal protection under the law. That's why they heard it.

Sounds like the several hundred thousands of us NFA owners are a real mischievous bunch:  "A review of trace data and criminal records from 2006 to 2014 disclosed twelve incidents in which owners of NFA firearms were convicted of crimes; however, there is no evidence that these crimes were committed with NFA firearms."  Pretty sure Fast and Furious guns are responsible for more crime. Just sayin'

Hozzie has it.   If I want to walk around a gun show, run an ad here and sell part of my personal collection it is not illegal all of the sudden.  I am not in the business of guns, I buy and sell as part of my hobby.  I would dare say that almost all of us who do this rarely make money. Certainly not any more than to put back into the hobby.   I like to swap around with .22's, nothing has changed.   I see the same guys at gun shows with tables and display cases, some of which are not a licensed gun dealer.  At least they never made me fill out a background check if I bought anything.  These sellers may have to adapt.   And best as I recall most of these guys have the same stuff in their displays all the time.  Not sure what guns they are selling that end up being used in crime.

  FIFY! :up:

Zero is nauseating.   This little speech of his is nothing more than innuendo, lies and fables. 

I personally recommend that you purchase any factory built + imported AK while you can, my friend.

The 41P thing we've been ready for a while now. Just makes County Sheriff elections more important...not the worst side effect. It's annoying, but not a substantial blow by any means. Judging people incompetent to handle firearms via the Social Security Administration...once someone is screwed over by this, the gun rights groups can challenge it in court and hopefully get the whole thing thrown out if they get the right judge to hear the case. As for smart gun research, more ATF investigators & processors, you'll see the words "the President's FY 2017 budget" tied to that, and for those of you who don't study politics, trust me when I say that's as laughable as a passing of the buck can be while sounding legit. If it's on time (only one annual budget in this President's tenure has been passed before the start of the fiscal year), there is still a Republican Congress that would have to pass the FY 2017 budget, and they can just cut out line items as they see fit. This is where the appropriations subcommittees in the House and in the Senate have the biggest role and where the real fight is. I really doubt that there is even a FY 2017 budget passed before the election. If I had to make a bet right now, I'd say we have continuing resolutions that take us to about March 1st, so this President will be gone before the FY 2017 budget is enacted and it will be up to his successor, so Hillary can just copy and paste it and see how bad it gets gutted as described above. My biggest questions are how this will shake out for internet sales. Will places like PSA and Primary Arms still be able to ship to a local FFL and let them do the background check? The term "engaged in the business" seems to put the onus on them to do it, and short of me snail mailing a 4473 so they have the original signed one on file, I'm not sure how they comply if it's enforced that way. Let's face it, if they wanted to screw with gun sales, that would be the biggest way to do it. Local gun shops would cheer, as it would have more people buying from their stock, but that's about it. Not that it wouldn't have happened anyway, but I'd like to thank asshats like this guy for the whole "gun show loophole" reasoning we've been subjected to. Thanks "PRIVATE COLLECTOR" who wants 3% added to the final price for credit card purchases like a lot of other business selling guns to compensate for tight profit margins.

This...   I just finished reading a book titled "Gun Control in the Third Reich". It started out innocent enough (or so it seems) and within a year of setting up a registry that "must never fall into the wrong hands" the political party that implemented the policy was no longer in charge and guess what happened.

seems like a lot of meh.

I love my FN 45. Mine's not a tactical model though. You will not regret this. Now if you can just find a good ankle holster.

I wouldn't be surprised if the scotus backs obama and calls this eo a law......

Background checks are just as much as infringement as voter id checks - if libs are against id checks then they go f themselves on background checks