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SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)


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4 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Unfortunately, my daughter is at the mercy of Tenncare who do the minimum. She seems to be hanging on for now and not needing to go to the hospital.

Edit: She's now got it coming out both ends so we're taking her to the hospital.

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6 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Edit: She's now got it coming out both ends so we're taking her to the hospital.

Please reach out directly if there is anything I can do to help, or we can do as a community.  

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Firm told me to get the vax or hit the road, I said OK, will save you the trouble, I quit.  Was on the company plane at the time with about three of my bosses, (have more bosses these days than producers).  That simple...they were stunned, I told them to save the fake facts, we just do not see things the same and I was sure they could replace 26 years of Process Construction experience with one of the college boys, no problem.  I had food plots to plant.

Owner called later that day and said since I had recouped from it in October last year it would not be a condition of my continued employment.  

When enough people push back it will stop, if they don't it wont.

Edited by Worriedman
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On 8/5/2021 at 2:08 PM, Erik88 said:

I thought folks here were all about businesses being able to make their own decisions? You can't have it both ways. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission#Opinion_of_the_Court

Ah, the ever popular Either-Or Fallacy at work.  Nice.  Completely wrong, but still nice to see that some people choose to reach for that lever since it's an easy one to pull.  😛

You actually can have it both ways and we used to do just that in this country when our moral convictions were stronger and we had a basis of ethics that gave us the fortitude to make stands and say, "Yeah - actually I can have it both ways if both ways are right, moral and just."

An intelligent person with autonomy over themselves and their business absolutely should be able to pick and choose which causes he or she will support.  There is no logical connection between deciding that you don't want a customer's business (i.e. refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding) and supporting the idea that companies should be able to force you to undergo a medical procedure, against your will, as a condition of employment.  The only tie between the two is an ethereal hope or belief that there should be a connection, because it gives us a neat little template to lay over top of every problem and absolves us of having to use our brains to make spot decisions.

There are several good reasons why I think that a person should get one of the COVID-19 vaccines if they fit into various risk profiles.  Wanting a pay-check isn't one of them.

 

1 hour ago, Worriedman said:

Firm told me to get the vax or hit the road, I said OK, will save you the trouble, I quit.  [...]  I was sure they could replace 26 years of Process Construction experience with one of the college boys, no problem.  I had food plots to plant.

Owner called later that day and said since I had recouped from it in October last year it would not be a condition of my continued employment.  

When enough people push back it will stop, if they don't it wont.

You are a rarity on several fronts.  Good for you!

The bad news is that corporate HR departments and lawyers have had decades of experience dealing with labor unions and know how to spot an insurrection before it gains steam.  These days they just fire you before you get a chance to organize a walk-out.  "Kill one and the others will take note and be afraid."  That sort of thing.

 

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33 minutes ago, TGO David said:

There is no logical connection between deciding that you don't want a customer's business (i.e. refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding) and supporting the idea that companies should be able to force you to undergo a medical procedure, against your will, as a condition of employment. 

We will have to agree to disagree. Folks are all about a company being allowed to make their own decisions until it's something they don't agree with. That is what's happening here. Companies mandating employees get vaccines is not a new thing. This has been happening for many, many years. Schools have done the same thing. No one cared until THIS particular vaccine for reasons we can debate. 

To be clear, I don't like seeing people get mandated to get the shot. I think it just drives a further wedge into an already heated issue and only makes people dig their heels in deeper.

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18 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Edit: She's now got it coming out both ends so we're taking her to the hospital.

My youngest had a stomach bug for a couple days last week.  Thankfully it was over fairly quickly, but it was ugly for a bit. Hopefully she feels better soon. 

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Unsurprisingly, my daughter tested positive for COVID at the hospital. She's still in the ER waiting for a room. They put her on oxygen but told her they do not have enough of the machines, (I'm assuming respirators), that she needs, so she's waiting for someone that is on that machine to be moved to life support so she can use it. This is pretty alarming in and of itself, but really not that surprising considering what my wife and I saw in the ICU at St. Thomas of Murfreesboro when I was in there a couple of weeks ago. Both of my grandsons, (the sons of my disabled daughter), have COVID now as well. They are secluded in their room so hopefully they won't give it to my other granddaughter.

Edited by E4 No More
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4 hours ago, Worriedman said:

Owner called later that day and said since I had recouped from it in October last year it would not be a condition of my continued employment.  

All due respect... but ph'ck them. I'd continue leaving, and sue the ever living pants off them. Just my 2-cents.

I agree with your final statement, just would take it further. Tyranny of the workplace is no better. You are no doubt very valuable, and obviously hold the upper hand, or they would not have caved in so quick. Make sure all the slightly-less-valuable employees know what they're worth to the employer on your way out.

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19 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

All due respect... but ph'ck them. I'd continue leaving, and sue the ever living pants off them. Just my 2-cents.

I agree with your final statement, just would take it further. Tyranny of the workplace is no better. You are no doubt very valuable, and obviously hold the upper hand, or they would not have caved in so quick. Make sure all the slightly-less-valuable employees know what they're worth to the employer on your way out.

Sue them for what exactly?

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1 hour ago, E4 No More said:

Unsurprisingly, my daughter tested positive for COVID at the hospital. She's still in the ER waiting for a room. They put her on oxygen but told her they do not have enough of the machines, (I'm assuming respirators), that she needs, so she's waiting for someone that is on that machine to be moved to life support so she can use it. This is pretty alarming in and of itself, but really not that surprising considering what my wife and I saw in the ICU at St. Thomas of Murfreesboro when I was in there a couple of weeks ago. Both of my grandsons, (the sons of my disabled daughter), have COVID now as well. They are secluded in their room so hopefully they won't give it to my other granddaughter.

Prayers for your daughter, grandchildren, you and your family. 🙏

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49 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

Sue them for what exactly?

How about discrimination?  Violation of Hippa laws?

Remember the movie Philadelphia where the  victim of a virus was terminated & how the masses sided with the sick guy & vilified the corporation.

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24 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

How about discrimination?  Violation of Hippa laws?

Remember the movie Philadelphia where the  victim of a virus was terminated & how the masses sided with the sick guy & vilified the corporation.

Look, I am against mandatory vaccinations being forced upon anyone, but at the same time I recognize why companies want their employees vaccinated.

Discrimination? Does that mean I can get a job without a driver's license or drive a commercial vehicle without a CDL? Violation of Hippa laws? Don't believe that one, either.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/hipaa-law.html

I never saw Philadelphia. I guess what I am saying though is that generally the courts have supported both employers and states mandating vaccines.

Edited by GlockSpock
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Look, I'm all for someone sticking up for what they believe in. I just think a lot of people are going to be severely disappointing when they find out that the law/courts are not on their side after being terminated for refusing a vaccine. I'd like to find out that I'm wrong.

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5 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

Look, I am against mandatory vaccinations being forced upon anyone, but at the same time I recognize why companies want their employees vaccinated.

I'm against mandatory jab also.

Discrimination? Does that mean I can get a job without a driver's license or drive a commercial vehicle without a CDL? Violation of Hippa laws? Don't believe that one, either.

Qualification & discrimination are completely different things. can a CDL driver do his job unjabbed?

 

5 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/hipaa-law.html

I never saw Philadelphia. I guess what I am saying though is that generally the courts have supported both employers and states mandating vaccines.

 

Answers in quotes.

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6 hours ago, Worriedman said:

Firm told me to get the vax or hit the road, I said OK, will save you the trouble, I quit.  Was on the company plane at the time with about three of my bosses, (have more bosses these days than producers).  That simple...they were stunned, I told them to save the fake facts, we just do not see things the same and I was sure they could replace 26 years of Process Construction experience with one of the college boys, no problem.  I had food plots to plant.

Owner called later that day and said since I had recouped from it in October last year it would not be a condition of my continued employment.  

When enough people push back it will stop, if they don't it wont.

This sort of thing can be negotiable with a mom and pop organization, whereas a large corporation issues a policy and doesn’t give a damn if the entire workforce quits over it until their shareholders start bitching.

I’m not advocating the advantage or disadvantage of either, but this has been my experience with each.

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Greg, what did your wife decide to do? I have a friend in a similar situation and he's planning to quit his really good government job. I really hope he doesn't regret it but I have to hand it to him for sticking to his beliefs. 

Edited by Erik88
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1 hour ago, GlockSpock said:

Look, I'm all for someone sticking up for what they believe in. I just think a lot of people are going to be severely disappointing when they find out that the law/courts are not on their side after being terminated for refusing a vaccine. I'd like to find out that I'm wrong.

I understand, and think you're playing devil's advocate here a little? I say that because I too like to probe peoples beliefs and expand the conversation.

I agree with your assessment as well that things might not go the way people want/believe they should. Courts can be a funny thing.

I think the disagreement between sides on this stuff will make for some stellar courtroom scenes, given sone good attorneys on both sides.

Ultimately there are fundamental legal issues that will determine the case. At this point I think the stuff shakes out on the side of the employee. It may take a couple appeals, and ultimately go all the way to the supreme court. My feeling is since its still an EUA, the employers will lose the mandate issue, but I could be wrong, I'm not a workplace attorney.

If nothing else, the workplace participation factor may make the legal issue moot. I can think of very few industries that can afford to lose out on a large percent of their employable options. As others have stated, if enough people opt out, legal challenges may not be needed.

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My question is this, if your company tells you that you must take the vaccine and you have bad issues because of it do you have a case?  I ask this because it's against the rules for me to use a seat belt in a company vehicle while driving depending on what I'm doing at the time. It's actually a good rule and saves lives, but totally outside of what normal people do. In any case, a lawyer would have a field day with an injury in that instance. 

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1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Greg, what did your wife decide to do? I have a friend in a similar situation and he's planning to quit his really good government job. I really hope he doesn't regret it but I have to hand it to him for sticking to his beliefs. 

She consulted with her doctor, a friend who is a nurse practitioner, and a cousin who is a pharmacist, and took their collective advice and got the jab. No reaction from the first one, and is scheduled to get the second one next week. To a person, they all recommended the Moderna version, so that's what she got.

Did your dad get over it? How's he doing?

Edited by gregintenn
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