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  I, being a fellow Christian, believe that people are making this into something it is not.  In no way would making a cake for a gay wedding be any sort of endorsement or acceptance of that union.  The baker is simply providing a service from his chosen profession.  Now, if the baker decided to give the cake away for free as a gift, then that would be a different story.   Every time religion becomes part of one's defense or argument, things become skewed.  What if the couple were not gay, but one of them was an adulterer or fornicator?  Would baking a cake for them somehow be an endorsement of their behavior?  Based on some responses I have read in this thread, the answer would be yes.  If this had been the case, would the baker have refused to make a cake?  Probably not.  Therefore, is it sin in general that is being frowned upon, or is it just a specific sin?  The reasoning I see so many people use at times on religious matters is often quite Pharisaical, and I believe that is one of the reasons so many have turned from the faith or view Christians with such disdain.   Personally, I think religion needs to stay out of this as it tends to muddy the waters.  The crux of the matter is simply: should the government be able to force a private business to provide a service to an individual or group of whom they have discriminated?  While it may not be popular, the answer is no.  I believe that people and private businesses should have the right to discriminate anyone for anything. The only time discrimination should be disallowed is when we are dealing with a government entity. In almost all other cases we should let the free markets handle it.  I know this is not reality, but it is my view on the way things should be.

This. This. A thousand times this. I don't support the baker's refusal of service. What I do support is his right to make that refusal.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/99867-u-s-air-force-band-goes-flash-mob-smithsonian-delight-visitors/

You know what the second use was for a Sears & Roebuck catalog was.

Hey I've got some tarp, we could hit the junkyard and start a business. Fat Ass Armor, "we cover your butt, all of it".

And folks would still think he had the right to refuse service no matter what their emotions. That's what you and others don't get. It isn't about what is subjectively right and wrong, it's about not using the government as a bully to force people to bow to your subjective views of right and wrong.

You guys didn't get the memo? Disagreement equals hate/racism.

The ignorance and hate in this thread is amazing especially from some of yall who claim to be "Christians". Nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites.

Folks, one of my most enjoyable hobbies is the making and smoking of Hams, Bacons and Sausages of all kinds. In the summer of 2012 I carried some Wild Boar Bacon to east TN for a TGO get together and thought a fight was going to break out over the last piece! It was fun! Those that have been following my posts on the other hunting threads know that I haven't hunted lately due to the cold and now ice. So, I have been manning the "smoke house" making Bacon, Buckboard Bacon and Canadian Bacon. I would like to share a few pics... Here's a few slabs... Canadian Bacon on the left and slab bacon on the right Final cuts ^ ^ ^ Bacon Buckboard Bacon Canadian Bacon Cooked for testing... And yes...it is freaking awesome!!!! Dave

  I say it almost that way.  I always say, "I couldn't care less."  :)

So? The point of the thread is the baker's right to refuse service, not who finds it offensive. Different people find different things offensive... is that what you're pointing out? What a revelation! The big issue the adults here have is the government becoming involved and enforcing other people's petty emotions.

Constitutionally protected rights are not subject to the tyranny of unchecked emotion.

As fat as I am, they probably don't make them in my size. I'm sure I could fashion one out of a tarp and a couple truck hoods.

If you remember using 8 track/LPs and cassettes.  if you had Atari 2600 and commodore 64. Reminded when spell check doesn't know Atari is a word.

.....when "3 on the tree" meant something other than Obama, Pelosi  and Reid........ :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

when you tell someone how old you are twice and are wrong both times  :rofl:

  Well, people talk a lot about Marshal Law, too. :)   - OS

I can't speak for other religions but I believe Christianity tells us to be compassionate to sinners and help them turn from their sin. I may be wrong but nowhere in the bible does it tell us to encourage sinful acts or to facilitate sinful deeds. I believe making a cake for a gay wedding would go against God's word and thus the owner was justified in not making the cake.

The deer poaching comment was a lighthearted attempt to translate the concept using a metaphor I thought would be relatable to you. I think any game warden would call boy driving just as guilty of poaching as the boy who did the shooting. Right? If one has a religious objection to homosexuality/gay marriage then to facilitate that would make one guilty as well. Here is different example. I have a friend of mine that works at another location of the same pharmacy chain I do. He is devoutly Catholic and the Church's teaching is that the use birth control is a sin. He does not handle BC pills and especially avoids the morning after pills because to facilitate someone else using them and committing a sin, he would be guilty of the sin of "scandal". (This is how it was explained to me by my friend, if any Catholics on the board are able to offer correction to something I have wrong, please do so. ) As far as the baker being part of what's wrong with the country I would counter that some folks inability to let others live life as they choose without demanding that everyone act and think like they do is a far more problematic issue. Really, how hard is it to go, "Oh, you don't want to bake us a cake, photograph our ceremony or rent us your facility*? Ok. We will take our money elsewhere." *All items that private individuals and in the last example, a church were sued over for declining to provide service to a gay wedding.

    except the liquor store has no say over being closed on Sunday.  Sue the state legislature who has decided certain businesses can't set their own hours.

Waiting on a barrel...

"Hey, Bob! I how's the new job at the gas station?"   "What job, Bill? I'm not working at the gas station."   "Huh. Somebody told me you was pumpin' ol' Ethyl..." :rofl:  :rofl: 

I love that they are still calling pass plays over the middle.  !?   Edit.... and catching them!!!  Did you see Calvin Johnson's facemask when he got up!?   That is a football player.

Take it easy there, little tyke. I was pointing out what the adults are talking about, not what their opinions are. The grown ups here are talking about the government involvement, not "feelings" of what is right and wrong.

When a 29 year old posts to this thread. :(

I just got a black Turner national match in 54" length. Traded my neighbor for it. My wife made him a pan of brownies. His wife is in Missouri while he finishes up here at ORNL and never gets homemade food so I'd call it a good trade. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

for many mango seasons i stored ammo many different ways. i.e. in the factory box, in plastic ammo boxes, in coffee cans (metal and plastic), loose in socks, loose in plastic bags, factory boxes in ammo cans, plastic boxes in ammo cans, loose in ammo cans.  right now for me the best way is loose in army ammo cans and plastic coffee cans. less space for storage.  you can put a can anywhere and it does not take up much space.  i do not store ammo in the gun safe.  ammo storage is a hot topic, everybody has their own way.  i got some ammo that started with me in west texas in the 70's and moved to south florida, moved to washington dc, then to southeast tennessee and it lived outside in a storage building and/or garage.  some in the factory box.  this ammo is just as good as day one and still goes bang.  don't over think ammo storage.   

When your 30th birthday was 28 years ago!   Dave

I have had this happen to me a few times using ballistic tip ammo. I do not use it anymore because of this reason. It may work well for others but not for me. I have never ever ever had any run that far when using soft points or interbond bullets (98% drop in their tracks or just make it 10 yards or so). I shoot a 300 Weatherby magnum now and that 9 pointer I shot this year dropped in his tracks. I was using Remington core-lokt. I do understand each deer is different and reacts differently when shot but they usually act the same way when hit with a good soft point, which is DRT lol.

When you could buy a firearm from the back of a magazine.

...when you tell someone to roll up the window and they start pushing buttons..... ...when you tell that same someone that the high beam switch used to be on the floor board...

When you're the only person in a room who knows what an abacus is lol

Everyone is this country, regardless of whatever issue they have (age, sex, race, religion, same sex, no sex, makes no difference), deserves to be treated as equally and as fairly as the person who walked in the store before them, and the same as the guy who comes in behind them. The good ol' USA is going to hell in a hand basket! Why should any of us care if two dudes want to get married and buy a wedding cake...sell them one for crying out loud!     Dave

I find it exceedingly "funny" that the tolerant people aren't as tolerant as they profess to be...when did a freaking cake become a court case? seriously?

   Thanks man, same here. I'm always up for a challenge if it's someone else's, kinda that whole 'pipes leaking in a plumbers house thing I guess. If I can possibly find the deer, I AM getting it out no matter what.

when you remember black & white tv only when telephones had rotary dials, & we had party lines I remember buying gas for .34 cents

If you need any help eating all that just shoot me a PM.... :yum:

WOW WHAT TIME IS DINNER ............. PLEASE!

  Maybe it was just French.

I do love me some CZ 452. I've got em in 22lr and 22mag and they would be among the last guns that I would ever sell.

You have a 512 mb memory card and it's 10 times bigger (mb wise) than your first computer.

  I haven't seen any hate in this thread  In regards to the Christians, of course they are a bunch of hypocrites.  Considering they are followers of Christ, not Christ Himself, how can they not be hypocrites?  I think a lot of people that have an animus towards Christianity/Christians really doesn't understand what Christianity is.

Yep. For Ft. Campbell the border doesn't exist. At the gunship I work at we have sold handguns to soldiers stationed at Ft. Campbell. If we can sell a handgun to them, you can buy one from them. Those orders qualify for residency.

I know. But mine was funnier.  :rock:

You have a lot of hair but it isn't on your head...

The problem could have been easily solved if the baker would have just told himself that he wasn't baking a wedding cake for them, but instead, a civil union cake.  :)

This is just another sign of the end times. Christians will be persecuted, the churches will be looked down upon, and men’s hearts will be hardened. It will be nation against nation, and brother against brother.   When I was younger I had doubts about God but the more I read in the bible and see the things going on today, there are some chilling similarities to be noted. That being said, I think the baker was being persecuted for their beliefs.   -HPH

  Shoeless shirtless people are not a protected class.   You can refuse to serve gay shirtless and shoeless people AFAIK. At least as per federal law. In some places you have to serve nude ones as per local law!   Is this a great country, or what? ;)   - OS

My Glock 23 rides the nightstand, it has over 3000 perfect rounds through it without issue. I wouldn't mind switching to something else quiter in hopes of saving my hearing if fired numerous times inside the house. While I can't tell a difference between shooting 9/40/45 I think the 40 is louder w/ more flash. I once worried about an intruder having body armor but feel the continuous volley of fire will deter them out of the house if at least one round doesn't hit face, neck, groin, arm, or leg.

Having someone else do the deed for you doesn't absolve you of culpability in that deed. If you have the opportunity to serve on a jury where you can prevent the state from committing an immoral act and actively have yourself removed from that jury, you share responsibility just the same as if you voted to convict. I believe that jury nullification is not only a right of the people, it is a duty. If the lawyers don't ask about my views on the subject, I am not going to volunteer that information and remove myself from a position of being able to actually do something about it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD