Leaderboard

Next time any of you are coming through Chattanooga on I24, look up GTs in Rossville, Georgia. A 10 minute drive from 24 will get you at a large gray building. They sell 50 round boxes of HST, Hornady, and GD all day long. Really cool guys too.

It appears we might have the first known case of the ATF going after someone for their AR15 pistol with brace. There is a lot to dig through here and not all of it is very clear. It seems the ATF convinced the US attorneys office to prosecute this man either for having a forward grip on his AR15 pistol or having the brace, or both. I'm going to pull out a few highlights but there is more in the link. "The critical issue in this case will not be possession, registration (or lack thereof), or barrel length. Ultimately, the primary issue in dispute at trial will be whether or not Kelland Wright’s firearm meets the definition of a “rifle,” that is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder, see 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a). Part of this issue will center on the implications modifications that Kelland Wright made or had made to the firearm, including the addition of an extension piece to the rear of the firearm. Wright’s expert, Richard Vasquez, is expected to testify that the extension piece functions as a cheek rest. The Government’s expert, Firearms Enforcement Officer Eve E. Eisenbise, is expected to testify that the extension piece makes the firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder. Officer Eisenbise is an employee of the ATF FATD. Richard Vasquez formerly was employed by the FATD. The relevant issues at trial relate to the specifics of Wright’s firearm, an AR pistol platform that was modified with an angled foregrip and collapsible stock." Here is the part that gets really interesting. Remember those letters that were circulated from the ATF saying there was nothing wrong with shouldering the brace? It appears the ATF is trying to keep those from being used in this case. "When you review the Motion in Limine, you quickly learn that the Government is seeking to preclude ATF FATD (Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division) determinations from being used in any way during trial For the reasons that follow, I find it extremely comical that the Government actually contended that “ATF FATD letters at trial creates a grave risk of confusing the issues and misleading the jury,” "Thankfully, after only deliberating for a very short time over lunch, the jurors came back with a verdict of not guilty. However, Mr. Wright has likely incurred tens of thousands of dollars of attorney fees and costs fighting for his freedom – all because ATF decided that it would invent a new interpretation of the law and it did so without notifying the Industry or the public. Let that sink in for a couple minutes…" https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/10/28/atf-unhinged-prosecutions-made-up-out-of-whole-cloth-you-might-be-next/

How 'bout a gift certificate to a local gun store? That way he can pick out what he wants. Welcome to the forum!

I for one am 100% against the NFA as a whole, but also concede 100% that the majority of "braces" are specifically designed to skirt around the letter of the law. Functionally speaking, they are against the spirit of the law. However, if they are indeed carefully crafted to "not be a stock but can be used as a stock", then they should be legal. Options if the ATF doesn't like it? Get legislation changed to specify them as SBR's instead of pistols. If I recall (and trust me, I did a lot of research on this), those letters typically claim to only be relevant to the person the letter is addressed to. Example, @Erik88 asks ATF if shouldering brace is ok, they tell him yes. However, that letter species it is only good for him. I could make a copy of the letter, but that letter really doesn't affect me and in truth was just an opinion from a specific agent to begin with. I think this probably sets precedent for those letters not being used in this or other cases. I decided, much to my dissatisfaction, that it wasn't worth it to me to play the brace-not-an-sbr game so I sold the Scorpion. I wish someone would simply push forth legislation legating all SBR's. Don't try to attach other pro-gun things to it. Keep it simple, one thing at a time. If removed from the NFA, I'd probably go buy/build several SBR's over the course of a year or two. It is confusing. I hate that. I'm glad they found him "not guilty". I'm curious to see how a case such as this sets precedent for the future. I think it also helps establish a precedent that SBR's themselves could be removed from the NFA.

Just wanted to throw out a big huge CONGRATULATIONS to 5 guys who have been students of mine in the past who achieved either Dark or Light Performance Pins this past weekend at Gabe White's Pistol Shooting Solutions class in Waverly TN. These guys all post here too from time to time so I also look at it an achievement for the whole TGO community. While I can't take all the credit for their performances , I hopefully at least inspired them if nothing else to work hard to improve their skills and struggle for perfection. So congrats to Miller_Man, Chances R , Aqil, Taylor, and Byrl (not sure as to his handle on TGO) You guys ROCK and make me proud. Keep up the good work. For those not familiar....http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/performance-awards/

Middle Tennessee Shooters Club in Manchester will be hosting a United Multigun League match on Sunday November 4th. The UML ruleset can be found here http://unitedmultigunleague.com/uml-rules/ The following divisions will be recognized, tac optics, tac irons, heavy tac, open, 2x4 tactical, 2x4 open, pcc, 2gun (rifle/pistol) plus our traditional Heavy Metal division. With all the options available to the shooters it is difficult to give an exact round count but if you're shooting one of the 3 gun divisions 100 for each gun should be enough. For 2 gun bring 150 for each and pcc should bring 250 to 300. Bring a couple slugs as well We will be shooting 5 stages, longest shot will be around 200 yards. No slings necessary.  There will be a link posted for early sign up on practiscore or sign up at the match. Registration will be from 1100 to noon and we'll get started promptly thereafter. Match fee is $25 for non members of the range and $20 for members. If this will be your first time shooting a match please arrive early for a new shooters orientation. I can be reached here or at sumocrp@aol.com with any questions.

I guess Ivan forgot to pee down the barrel after using corrosive ammo.

Space Invaders is a Japanese shooting video game released in 1978 by Taito. It was developed by Tomohiro Nishikado, who was inspired by other media: Breakout, The War of the Worlds, and Star Wars. The games was one of the forerunners of modern video gaming and helped expand the video game industry from a novelty to a global industry. The game Space Invaders became an immediate hit when it was released in 1978. In the original planning for the game, they had planned to have the aliens be human soldiers. Taito figured that they did not want to send the message that shooting humans was ok, so they changed it to aliens. Shortly after being released, Space Invaders grew in popularity. In 1980, it was licensed for use in the United States. It was released in coin-operated arcades, the Atari 2600, and the Nintendo Entertainment System. Throughout its lifetime it has generated more than 500 million dollars in revenue. Fun facts... The game was so amazingly popular in Japan that it caused a coin shortage until the country's Yen supply was quadrupled. Entire arcades were opened in Japan specifically for this game. Space Invaders, along with Pac-Man and Pong, shares the notorious distinction of being one of the most duplicated, bootleged and/or hacked arcade games.

Another odd one happened in CT a few months ago, where a certain gun shop was informed that their pistol config was in violation of the NFA. - mainly to skirt CT state law, the config was a brace on a pistol with 26" or more OAL, with added VFG, which made it a "firearm" . - BUT, they used a folding brace, and out of the blue, ATF decided that the over all measurement should be with the brace folded, which of course made the OAL less than 26", and hence with the VFG, it was an AOW. - Note that AFT measures rifles with a folding or extendable stock open to maximum length, so this determination is the exact opposite. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/05/24/oal-brace-folded/ - OS

Congrats to Cool Hand Luke on earning a Turbo Pin. Only eight people have done so.

Excellent point peejman! I don't chamber the same round more than twice, 3 times at most, because of the potential of bullet setback or nose damage that potentially occurs when chambering. I just toss that/those round(s) in a ziplock back for later range use. As I shoot/practice/train with my Glocks or Shield that yields me about at least 100 rounds per year. I make it a habit to shoot empty my carry mag at least once a year to ensure fresh functional ammo in the mag. I also I use these "recycled" rounds to ensure POA = POI and reliable functioning in my carry guns. This is the primary reason I've purchased the 50 round boxes, and generally multiples in the same lot, in the past. Doubling the price, as with restricting the 50 round box sales is gonna hurt...

A guy I used to work with is now retired. His "job" now is Church Security. At his church they have an organized team of armed volunteers. At least 6 at services and one or more volunteers in the building during week days. I've always admired Israel. They don't take crap off nobody.

I'm a bit slow, but I never understood the hatred a lot of the world has for Jewish people.

I am considering getting a .30 cal can for one of my hunting rifles. Before I buy one I would like to test fire the rifle with and without the can. I want to make sure there is enough of a reduction to justify the cost. Anybody in the Nashville area have one and wouldn't mind me tagging along the next time they go shoot? I am thinking about putting one on one of these two Kimber rifles.

https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/School-bus-shooting-in-Clay-County-leaves-at-least-one-injured-498887941.html The world has gone insane.

It’ll be enough to shoot with out hearing protection but that’s about it unless you go sub sonic but then you may run into bullet expansion issues. I hunt with my 6.8 AR suppressed 100% of the time due to the likleyhood of multiple shots on hogs but it’s an sbr and is balanced nicely with an OAL barrel length of about 17”. That short kimber may balance and Not feel awkward which maybe the ticket but definitely smart to try before you buy. I tried it and decided to wear hear pro when I go with my bolt guns

Welcome. Yep he is lucky to have you thinking of him this way. I agree though, guns are individual. I have bought a few I just don't shoot because I am not good with them or don't like them. How about buy him a toy pistol and in the box put the "Exchange for a real one" certificate. A gift certificate would lock him into one place and that might not be the best deal on the gun he likes. It pays to shop around when you pick one. Of course I am terribly "frugal" or just plain cheap depending on how you look at it.

Please post pics after you get it cleaned up.

This is the same thing we’d suggest if your husband joined looking for a gun for you.

Just to let you know what will be involved in your decision: Revolver ? (single action or double action). Semiautomatic ? (single action, double/single or double action only) (striker fired or hammer fired). Then you have to decide on the caliber and there are numerous ones (380, 38, 9mm, 40cal., 45) and several more that I didn't list. Next, you have to choose a manufacturer, again there are many of them. As far as being ripped off. Big stores like Basspro and Academy are often over priced and the smaller gun stores will try to sell you what they have in stock. I know it will ruin the surprise but your husband really needs to be the one to pick it out or do as greg mentioned and see about a gift certificate. BTW, I wish my wife wanted to buy me one

First, welcome to the group. What you're asking is like trying to pick out clothes for a teenage girl. The best bet is to let him pick it out.

I don't like my LCP because I can't hit anything with it. Can't grip it properly. Newer ones supposed to be better. He kinda needs to feel one in his hands to get the right one, (I FEEL). Maybe super small isn't needed.

Didn't take it as such, I had seen the newsflash which said it was on a bus..I thought a student had been shot.

First off Prayers to the victums!!! I hope the wounded all survive. Now as far as the world going crazy! I think a good many have some real issues that they need to begin dealing with. It is either drug related or Domestic related most likely. Could be home invasion but if so it was probably over drugs or drug money. I will never understand why people have to think someone has to get shot over drugs or Domestic issues. Neither one ever turns out good when a gun is involved. Over the years there have been several domestic disputes in my family at one level or another and a gun was never used to solve any of them and they all worked out just fine.........JMHO

You're welcome to shoot mine anytime. What's the thread pitch on those Kimbers?

Time to sue the State that allowed the prosecution of these cases. It's time we begin an assault on the insane rules the ATF makes, and the entire NFA as a whole. Seems to me the NFA is nothing more than a tax, and illegal tax, on the 2nd Amendment, and like the Poll Tax, should be done away with.

Earlier this year the ATF referred a case to a US Atty. for prosecution of an owner of an AR pistol for making an SBR after adding a cheek rest to his AR pistol tube. Luckily the jury returned a verdict of not guilty https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/10/28/atf-unhinged-prosecutions-made-up-out-of-whole-cloth-you-might-be-next/ Of particular note is that the prosecuting attorney sought to preclude the ATF’s own FATB letters regarding the use of braces, cheek rests, and foregrips from being admitted as evidence. Their position was that the letters were not exculpatory because they weren’t about that particular rifle and that particular product in that particular configuration and did not set a precedent. To add insult to injury, it appears most of the court documents have been sealed after the loss. It doesn’t matter who is in office, the ATF is still gonna do ATF things.

Sorry to hear about that, I try and not leave any weapons in the vehicle overnight, just in case.

I used a variety of rounds, mostly its what was available and worked when I was "qualifying" that particular pistol. I've got Gold Dots in one, Federal somethingorother in another, and a coupe versions of Hornady in others. I'm less concerned with bullet terminal performance than I am with reliable function and accuracy (which is me, not the gun).

I don't really fault the decision, just his newest blatant whopper to support it. - OS

I have to disagree a bit here; most atrocities against Jews are committed by atheists or Muslims, who barely recognize Jesus as a mere profit and don't even believe he was crucified. http://www.catholicdigest.com/from-the-magazine/outside-perspectives/what-does-islam-believe-about-jesus-and-his-death/ No, there has to be some other reasoning to the hatred; I speculate that it's just a feud that has been going for eons and nobody truly knows why anymore.

Spinning the hub while greasing is correct, it will do nothing to avoid blowing out the rear seal.

I found a surprisingly fair article from Europe of all places. https://www.euronews.com/2018/10/28/what-are-ar-15-rifles-and-why-are-they-used-so-often-in-us-mass-shootings-euronews-answers

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/20/speer-gold-dot-secures-us-department-homeland-security-contract-120-million-rounds/ This may be making it more difficult to find 124s

I've heard/read that using the zerk & grease gun method to grease the bearings you should jack the trailer up and slowly spin the wheel while pumping grease in to avoid blowing the rear seal(s) out.

There's a difference between utility axles and boat axles. utility/ commercial axles don't have a SS L-rings where the seal runs, usually the seal is a dust lip or single lip seal, during the assembly process just the bearings are coated with grease and installed, usually they have a dust cap. Boat axles have a SS L-rings where the seal runs, double lip seal, during the assembly process the entire cavity is full of grease, there are basically 2 types of protectors. 1) euz-the spindle is gundrilled and a zerc installed as you pump grease into the system it enters between the seal and the rear bearing as you pump the grease will come through the outer bearing, this system usually has a galv cap with a removable rubber plug. 2) Trailer Buddy, Vault, Bearing Buddy or the Walmart Chinese copycat BB photo posted above, this is the better design because its pressurized, there is constant grease pressure applied to the bearings, the pressure doesn't allow water to enter the cavity of the hub. To grease this system is a little harder, if the spindle is gundrilled then its easy same as #1, if not you'll need to install the hub, pump grease into the cavity and install the bearing, grease should come thought the bearing, install D washer, nut, retainer and cotter pin. Install protector and fill until the outer cap comes out to the front of the protector. Tip do not put it together dry and think you can pump grease to the rear bearing from the zerc on the protector, 2 things will happen the front of the protector is rated at 10+/-psi and a grease gun can generate 1000+psi if forced also the rear seal will not take much psi to damage the spring inside the seal. easy peesy...

Couldn't have said it better myself. From Mad Dog: Secretary of Defense James Mattis on Sunday condemned the person accused of killing 11 people at a Pittsburgh synagogue, calling him a “coward” and not a real man. The suspect, identified as Robert Bowers, reportedly yelled “All Jews must die!” during the shooting. “This individual — I won’t even call him a man — he’s the poorest excuse for a man you could ever come up with,” Mattis said, according to the Military Times. “Who would use a weapon in a house of worship, on unarmed innocent people and even shoot four policemen, then surrender himself? This is a coward,” Mattis added. “He is not a man by any definition that we use in the Department of Defense.”

Whole new set of hardware in the pew back.....

I think your going to hear about more and more Churches having security of some type in them.

I overheard a guy ask a deacon at church how they felt about concealed carry. The deacon told him that if something happened, he would expect to see 5 or 6 handguns drawn. I'm not sure if he counted me in that number or not.

One of these days one of these lunatics is going to walk into the wrong church and know right quick what it is like to get shot multiple times. My friend William attends a church here in Gallatin and he said there is at least 6 to 8 armed members with 4 of them being Vets that all spent 2 or more tours in the sandpit and they all have family members there. They have practiced an active shooter drill at the church and run 1 once every month. There is about 250 members in the church every Sunday. William says he feels much safer knowing there are armed trained people in the church. He is a Vet from the Navy during Nam.

It is complicated yet also simple Greg. I am sure there are folks here that can explain it a lot better than I can. Just remember JESUS is a Jew and was born one. I think you know that story if you follow the bible. During his time on earth he preached the gospel of Christianity and had built of a great many followers. So many that the leaders in the countries he traveled to and spread the word of GOD began to fear him. The leaders were also able to turn many of his followers against him. You know the rest of that story and how it ended. Now IMO I think some people have put the blame of what happened to JESUS on the Jews that turned against him. One of his own discipals Judas sold his location where he could be found for 20 pieces of Silver and after realizing what he had done hung himself. All of that was blamed on the Jewish people for Centuries by most Christians in all countries. It was only a minute number of Jews back then that had turned on JESUS but it was like being guilty by association to the Christians I guess. I think I am correct in this but the real connecton came with Hitler. It was his goal to kill every Jewish person on earth and he tried and the Holocost was one of the most terrible atrocities to ever happen. Israel is the only Jewish State/Country left on Earth and I am very glad and proud that the United States is their strongest supporter and ally. If I have quoted anything not true by mistake please someone correct me!!

If the last two incidents have anything to do with political timing or political anger about who might win or lose, we all better step up the prayers. Election day ain't here yet!

Damned if the timing of this stuff isn't convenient! This sucks. Prayers for everyone involved.

SGAMMO sells Federal HST in 50 round boxes at very nice prices.

I don't believe as they do completely but no one deserves to be shot because of their beliefs or their faith period. I know they are of Christian faith so I will still send a prayer to GOD for those effected by this tragety. Also for the police officers wounded in this act of insanity.

Looks like the guy disliked Trump and was a major anti-semite. I guess Trump's son in law has something to do with that. What the heck is going on with the timing of these incidents? I try not to think we're all being manipulated but first the Midterm Bomber then another mass shooting right before a big election. Maybe statistically these things happen every so often and occasionally intersect with Elections. I keep telling myself that anyway.

I didn’t even watch the video. I just went from the description under it. I ain’t watching that mess.

So many bourbons, so little time....

I am not into the .357 auto (SIG) round but if they make a PCC in this round I would beat folks away from the gun counter to get one. Something about this rifle chambered in .357 auto makes me want to spend money.