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Let's pretend Obama gets beat in Novermber; just about the same time Ron Zimmerman is aquitted of all charges. You think it's bad now? It'll make the Watts riots look like a county fair.

Not automatically. Even as a white person there are ways to prevent you from being a racist. First and foremost you must have a Obama/Biden 2008 sticker prominently displayed on your car. Next you must start any conversation with a minority with the fact you voted for Obama and and the second sentence must always be that is was Bush's fault. And finally you must "occupy" something other that the welfare office. I think if you do these things you might be able to prevent yourself from becoming a racist but more importanantly being labeled as one. Dolomite

If you're white, you are automatically a racist, no matter what you do.

And, you enjoy working on Mom's computer so much that you don't mind doing it again

Welcome Nologic, you came out of the gate pretty strong there. Better pace yourself before you...er, peter out.

No, you misunderstand what I say. It is illogical for me to think that this was an unprovoked attack. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but to me it isn't probable that Martin just got it in his head suddenly that he was going to deliver a beat down. It takes two to tango and since Zimmerman was following him from the outset it is more logical that he started it. There are many things that others believe that I choose not to because I think it is illogical. A billion people believe in Islam; I don't. I think it's illogical. People believe that Casey Anthony didn't kill her kid. To me it's illogical that there is another explanation. A lot of people think OJ was set up by police. I think it is illogical that he didn't kill those two. I think this way because I have no emotion towards these things which allow me to think rationally. You said above that Zimmerman was beaten "close to death." I did not know this. Usually when someone is beaten near death they are hospitalized with severe injuries or coma. As I understand Zimmerman was treated at the scene by EMS. Is there something you know that we don't?

Sorry, I'm white and thus if I comment on this story I will become a racist. At least that's what the media tells me. Sad thing is, I'm legally allowed to call myself an American Indian, but apparently any white blood makes you white. Unless you are black. Or is it the other way around? WTH ever happened to the content of my character mattering more than my skin color?

I consider having the back of your head forcibly slammed, possbily repeatedly, on concrete a life threatening situation.

Talk about a reality check? The wife and I were deep asleep when this piercing sound woke me up. Coming out of such a deep sleep, it took me a moment to realize it was the burglar alarm. If any of you have an ADT system with that ear piercing whistling siren, you know what I’m talking about. We have had this system for about a year and a half and have never had any false alarms. I was thinking of that and many other things as I grabbed my S&W 686+, .357 magnum pistol sitting on top of my nightstand next to me. I also have a Remington 870 shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot next to the bed. I realize now the shotgun is just too unwieldy for the configuration of my home. Shaking and somewhat confused on what to do next, not being able to hear anything because of the ear-piercing siren, I decided the siren had to be turned off because it could not be tolerated for any length of time. The single control panel is located in the kitchen at the opposite end of the house. The siren is located on the hallway wall half way between the bedroom and kitchen control panel. As I slowly and carefully made my way down the hall while checking for intruders, the siren was actually hurting my ears, and my hands were shaking. We always keep a living room lamp light on. After checking the living room, dining room and kitchen and seeing it was clear, I disabled the siren. What a head relief! Fortunately having a pair of reading glasses near the alarm control panel I checked the code on the read out. Code 02, basement motion detector. This is where I always suspected to be the most logical place for a BG to enter. The motion detector immediately activates the alarm, not the 45 second count down for the windows and doors. At that moment the telephone in the living room rings, we don’t have a phone in the bedrooms. I’m certain it’s ADT calling about the alarm. The wife had followed me down a few moments later. The door leading to the basement has the standard doorknob lock, a dead bolt and one of those useless chain things with the tiny screws securing it. I tell the wife to answer the phone as I am covering the basement door hoping no one will come barging through. The ADT person tells my wife, “we have received an alarm from your address, Code 02 basement motion detector, what is your password?†The wife is relaying this information to me as my eyes are trained on the basement door. The ADP person asked my wife, “are you going to check the basement or do you want us to send the police?†With hands still shaking I thought for a moment… To me, the best course of action was to get the police here, quick. She informed my wife they are calling. It was probably 3-4 minutes from the time the alarm went off until ADT called, assuming I immediately awoke when the alarm went off. I have a police scanner sitting close to the alarm panel I seldom use and thought this was an opportune time to turn it on to monitor the Sheriffs progress. I live in EBFE and sure enough, the deputy sheriff called dispatch for directions. The dispatcher called and informed my wife that the deputy was here and unchaining my driveway gate. The deputy later informed me it was policy to call the homeowner before arrival for safety reasons (home owner with gun). It took roughly 20 minutes for the deputy to arrive. While waiting for the police to arrive I happened to look at the clock, a few minutes after 3 A.M. Thinking to myself, from what I’ve read, two to three o’clock seems to be the prime time for home invasions. Seeing the police car driving up my 200+ yard driveway, I pondered what to do with my handgun. Put it away or keep it near and cover it with a towel or something. Since he was on scene I felt comfortable enough to take it back where it came from. I didn’t know if he would come to the front or back door so I turned on the front and backlights and opened the doors. He cautiously approached the back door and announced sheriffs department and I made myself visible and told him to come in. I gave him a brief description of what happened and the alarm code. He told me the first bit of good news was my gate was closed and chained when he arrived (no pad lock, just a clip). He then cautiously opened the basement door with flashlight in hand, turned the basement light on and slowly started down the stairs. I’m thinking, dude, you need to have your handgun drawn? I’m reasonably certain someone broke in and might still be there. But, I’m not about to say anything as he is a professional and is trained, it’s my over active imagination probably. After what seemed to be an hour, but probably only 4-5 minutes, I hear the officer coming up the steps. He was down there for quite some time. Now I’m really wondering where they broke in from and how much damage was done. He asks me a couple questions about my garage door, something about if it locks? The single car garage is separated from the basement with a flimsy hollow door and dead bolt. With great anticipation, he finally tells me everything looks secure and there was no break in. I can’t tell you the relief my wife and I experienced at that news. It still took us a couple of hours to calm down before we could attempt to go back to bed. Before departing, the deputy complemented me on my Liberty safe in the basement and we talked a good ten minutes on what could have caused a motion detector false alarm and crime statistics in my county, etc. before he left. A good guy! Lessons learned: While I am fortunate this was a false alarm and grateful for such, what if it was the real thing? After the deputy departed, one of my first thoughts was, I need to get me a good alert / guard dog. But in retrospect that might not be a good thing. I had a good alert dog at my previous residence but has since passed away from old age. We had the same ADP alarm system and my wife burnt something in the oven and set off the smoke alarm. The dog went crazy yelping and running around from the high pitch loud noise. Seems to me that would be one more distraction to deal with in an emergency? The shotgun is too unwieldy for me to use indoors with the configuration of my home. Guess I’ll put it back in the safe as it is a better outdoor defense gun, and I don’t “plan†on checking out or confronting anyone outdoors at night. I have a phone jack in the bedroom. I need to get a hard line phone for it today because that’s the number the police will call upon arrival, the telephone number of your alarm system the ADP people give the police. I have a set of electronic earmuffs in my range bag. I’m going to put them next to my home defense pistol. I wonder if they will muffle the ear piercing alarm? With the alarm off they do enhance your hearing significantly, which is an advantage. Most importantly, I need to get some training and work on my mind set. Instead of trembling hands, I should have been pissed someone has the balls to break into my home. For me anyway, seems my best laid plans went out the window when that alarm went off! It also a different story when it’s daytime and you’re prepared, alert and condition yellow compared to at your most vulnerable, asleep in bed. Sorry about being long winded.

i have all of those if you would like to shoot them

Well, apparently the male and female Virginia-Pilot reporters that underwent a beat-down recently "disrespected" the mob of black 'youts' at a street intersection when the female reporter fearfully auto-locked the car doors. I guess that's enough to provoke gang thugs, showing fear and all.

One thing too think of,the initial size of the hard drive is used by windows itself,the install could eat as much as 40 gigs itself,which would leave roughly another 40 for everything else.

It what we do; it’s all we can do. A jury will have all the information laid out in front of them. They will not only know what the witnesses have to say, but they will judge their credibility. They will get to see everything and have everything explained to them in detail. We only get whatever the media gives us. We aren’t going to be on this jury, and if someone from Florida develops an opinion based on what they read here, they would have to lie to make it through jury selection. We are just discussing; our opinions mean nothing. I don’t think the jury will have a problem determining what happened. I think the big question will be a legal one. Can you stalk, engage, and cause a citizen that is committing no crime to become fearful of you, and then kill him claiming self-defense when he protects himself? I say no. Unless someone can show me some evidence why Zimmerman thought he had a right to stop and interfere with Treyvon Martin’s peaceful journey through the neighborhood, other than it was a black kid he didn’t recognize; he should have stayed in that truck and waited on the cops. Treyvon Martin was in a place he had a lawful right to be. He was doing nothing wrong and was accosted by a stranger. He had no duty to run or retreat. He defended himself…. That is what stand your ground is all about. Unfortunately all he had to defend himself with was his hands, and his attacker pulled a gun a shot him to death.

Replacement theology can be thought of as covert anti-semitism. Replace the Hebrews as God's chosen people with something else. It's contrary to the Bible, so it's rubbish. It's not surprising though. People hate Jews. Always have, always will. Most of the time this agenda is pushed by bigots, white folk more often than not. God Bless Israel. The real one.

He's heard. He just doesn't buy it. Neither do I

You are forgetting 6.8, because Zimmerman followed Martin he deserved to be beat to death. Or haven't you heard?

The victim was being pursued by someone that was following him and then jumped out of a truck and came after him. His choice was fight or flight. So you are saying he had a duty to retreat? If he was scared because he was being stalked by a stranger; instead of engaging his pursuer and protecting himself he should have simply ran away?

You know what's really sad about this? The fact that this irresponsible, unenviable cretin has all these kids that will never have a caring, responsible father for a role model while men (like myself and several others I know), who would have been good dads were, for whatever reason, never able to produce kids. And you know what's even sadder than that? The fact that - precisely because of cretins like this and the current state of society in general - I no longer regret not having kids. I think, however, that the state should help him. I think it should give him a free surgical castration, and then set up a big mean @ss case worker who will guaran-damn-tee that he works a minimum of 100 hours a week with Sundays off so that he can spend time - a minimum of 12 hours each Sunday - with his children. In short, he'd either be working, sleeping or raising his kids - no movies, no bars, no I-pods/I-pads, no more screwing like a rabbit. Either that, or we could take him and all his women and kids and just drop them off somewhere out back of beyond and let them fend for themselves, because I for one am God-damn tired of society supporting and even encouraging this kind of morally reprehensible, irresponsible behavior! :wall: Note to liberals: I don't mind helping folks out. And I don't mind you helping folks out. BUT, when you start helping folks out by giving them my freaking money... Well, yeah - then I get a little god-damned irritated! Ok, rant off.

Damn I'm glad I worked all week to help support all of his children with my taxes.! Now if I could just get somebody to help me support mine I would really be happy.

In these scenarios I cannot tell who is dumber: the guy, the 11 woman, or the welfare system created that supports this. Probably a combo of all three...

$10 says that kid is missing a finger before he's 25

If getting out of your vehicle is "instigating", why do we issue cruisers to cops? They must instigate a whole bunch of violence that wouldn't happen if they just drove on by. Ultimately, it comes down to who started fighting. Physical evidence - not eyewitnesses, not phone records, not feeeeelings, plainly indicates that Martin started the fight. Physical evidence indicates that Zimmerman was losing, and in fact didn't land a punch of any consequence. Physical evidence indicates that Martin had Zimmerman pinned, and Zimmerman could reasonably say he was in fear for his life at the time he shot Martin. Some folks decided who was guilty a month or so ago, and piffling things like facts won't interfere with their opinion.

What Zimmerman, Martin medical reports tell us and the media didn't http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/ From the article - "The new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they don’t find. First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martin’s injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound. Zimmerman’s injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury. It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmerman’s hands? Where are the bruises on Martin’s face or other parts of his body? The evidence paints a picture where Martin was the only person landing blows. " "The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense. But if Zimmerman is to have justifiably used self-defense, he can’t have provoked Martin’s attack. The affidavit filed by the prosecutor against Zimmerman was extremely weak and had many glaring omissions. It does not answer the most crucial question: Who attacked whom? All it states is: “Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.†“Confronted†does not mean “provoked†or “assaulted.†It may mean that Zimmerman merely followed Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood. Surely Zimmerman had the right to investigate a strange person in his neighborhood. But, in any case, Zimmerman simply asking Martin why he was in the neighborhood doesn’t give Martin the right to start striking him or pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk. Simple words do not justify hitting someone. " Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/#ixzz1vFzSy83z

Herein lies the (your) confusion. What, do we have to go back several weeks and rehash all of this stuff all over again?!?! It wasn't as plain and simple and innocent as Martin simply out for a stroll and Zimmerman saying to himself "I'm gonna get me a black kid/guy". 1. There had already been robberies/burglaries in the neighborhood 2. Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch group (not self-appointed as some may wish/spin) 3. a. Martin was dressed similar to suspects in previous robberies/burglaries; b. Martin was acting suspiciously and walking close to buildings rather than on sidewalk or in the street 4. Zimmerman did call 9-11 and report the situation (not something you do if you are intent on killing someone) 5. Zimmerman replied to the 9-11 dispatch operator when asked for a description of the suspicious person (Martin) that he could not positively see the race of the individual (thereby dispelling any spin on his actions being racially motivated. All of this has been established as fact up to this point. Just based on these known facts, it is virtually impossible to spin it to make Zimmerman a racist vigilante out to kill himself a black person. Those who have an agenda and those who have not closely followed the case act as if Zimmerman, the police and whoever else are just now making up a lot of this stuff, months after the incident, when in fact all of this was known at the time and only days after the incident. All of these things support what Zimmerman said happened. If he was just saying this now, two months later, that might be cause for suspicion of what actually went on, but these things were known from close to the time of the incident before this incident was known beyond it's local region and before it became a national story. And as more evidence and witnesses come out, it ALL seems to support Zimmerman. So I don't see any racist bigots here, not Zimmerman, and not those who believe his story based on the facts. (edited for punctuation that caused an unintended emoticon)

Lighten up, Francis

I did not say any of that. Those are your words. If Martin did any of the things that you mentioned and he wasn't on Zs property Z still should have called the cops and waited. If you are a racist bigot thats your issue not mine. Martin should not have beat Zs ass,but if Z had minded his own business this would not have started. I don't know what kind of neighborhood some of you live in where a black kid walking down the street is automatically a suspect. I don't care if Z walks because it won't change a thing, but if he goes to jail maybe it will slow some of you cowboys down a little. I sure could have used you hardened killers in some of my old units, but you probably wouldn't want to fight against someone who fights back.

That's not true. I have no problem with LEOs who truly "serve and protect". It's the one who have inflated egos, have the attitude that everyone is a criminal until proven otherwise, or don't hesitate to stomp on the law-abiding citizen's constitutional rights that I have HUGE problems with.

Zimmerman will walk. Take that to the bank.

We see near daily examples of this type thing happening. How many instances of this stuff would you need to see to believe that perhaps they aren't isolated instances, but a systemic problem?

I don't fault him either, it's just when people like this start trying to teach their bad habits and general ignorance to others that it bothers me somewhat...

Based on everything I've seen and read, I couldn't vote for 2nd degree murder, but manslaughter? Yes. The problem with a manslaughter conviction is it will just piss off everyone. The people who want him crucified for murdering "that poor defenseless child" will not be satisfied, and the people who insist all Zimmerman did was defend himself from a "vicious thug" will be just as mad. Me, I think Zimmerman showed extremely poor judgement and as a result he ended up causing a situation where Martin thought he had to lash out and we see the results.

Agreed. It's morons like this that make a person wish birth control could be made retroactive. 'Course if he twirls that peestola the wrong way one too many times, it may very well end up that way.

Someone needs to get his address so we can send him a crate of condoms for Christmas so he doesn't reproduce & make any copies of himself. I can just imagine a bunch of little redneck kids running around in cammo T-shirts twirling their Glocks around at the family reunion yelling "that's how I roll, daddy".

Well, for those that managed to last more than a couple of minutes, all I can say is you all are better men than I. I already feel dumber, after watching just that little bit.

Let's not forget, that if BHO had a son, he would look like Trayvon.

3:25 mark..... Translation: "Your honor, I think I just incriminated myself...." "Oops....I did it again at 5:50" The spin comes in at 10:25 for those interested.....this is so bad. I want my 12 minutes back.

not this guy again "thats how I roll" what a tool

I quit taking this guy seriously & turned it off :50 seconds into the video when he started showing off his loaded pistol with his finger on the trigger.

He's not a real ninja, you'd never get to see a real ninja... Love the creep impersonations! Sounds like speed Gonzalez on reefer.

He's going to shoot himself one day and we will all laugh. I would say something else but I don't think it would be appropriate.

Zombies, the greatest metaphor ever devised......and if you have to ask, maybe it's best you not know.

The title of this thread says it all.

I didn't care for Bush and I don't care for Obama or Romney. That all suck equally.

and then there's that moment we all wish we hadn't stepped into a thread.

Yes.

I mean this as an honest question and am not trying to pick a fight: have you ever heard of a gun shop accepting the return of a firearm? I have not nor have I ever expected them to. Not even Walmart accepts gun returns and I can think of several good reasons of why such a policy is in place. In my experience, buying a gun is a lot like buying a car--once you sign the papers that gun (and all it's problems) belong to you.

Yeah, cmon Ron, this one was positive. I'm trying to give praise as freely as I give criticism...

Right, but not in this thread. So I didn't get the " here we go again". He should have said "well this is new"

Just think how broke you'll be being that close to Knob Creek!

Be sure to have a manual hole digger on hand when the diesel runs out.