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We went to breakfast at a restaurant   where the 'seniors' special' was   two eggs, bacon, hash browns   and toast for $2.99.  'Sounds good,' my wife said.  'But I don't want the eggs..'     'Then, I'll have to charge you $3.49  because you're ordering a la carte,'    the waitress warned her.     'You mean I'd have to pay for   not taking the eggs?'   my wife asked incredulously.     'YES!' stated the waitress..    'I'll take the special then,' my wife said..       'How do you want your eggs?'  the waitress asked.       'Raw and in the shell,' my wife replied.   She took the two eggs home    and baked a cake.     DON'T MESS WITH SENIORS!!!   WE'VE been around   the block more than once!

A "brick" of .22 ammunition is 10 boxes of 50 rounds each packed into a larger container roughly the shape of a brick for a total of 500 rounds.  No other configuration is a "brick".   That is all.  Thank you.  :)

[quote name="glowdotGlock" post="1169087" timestamp="1405533979"]I just wrote an article on the most dangerous vehicles.1. Cars2. Trucks3. Motorcycles[/quote] Three most dangerous types of bears 1) Big bears 2) Pissed off bears 3) Big, pissed off bears

I knew her sister Thorazine. Goddess of drool.

I just wrote an article on the most dangerous vehicles. 1. Cars 2. Trucks 3. Motorcycles

You'd have better luck asking to choose between 9mm and 45.  :rofl:

The 5 most dangerous liberals: 1) self righteous liberal 2) all knowing liberal 3) demogogue liberal 4) moralizing liberal 5) "you're a racist" liberal

How was the trip in the ambulance? Are they keeping you overnight for observation? Did they get an orthopedic surgeon to look at it? I hope all those medical bills doesn't financially wreck you.

Even though I enjoyed the movies, naked women would be an improvement, but odds are they would be hobbits with big hairy feet.  Not that there is anything wrong with that if you are into that sort of thing.

The 22 is out there, and for more reasonable prices now. It's not pre-panic, but Monday afternoon I got a brick of Federal for $25.xx out the door at Academy. Don't sell the gun. When you see a 50 round box under $4, buy it. I've watched folks sniff their nose at a 50rd box on the shelf at a good price only to complain about not seeing a brick. Buy the 50 when you can! Hold on. If you've waited this long to shoot 22, now is not the time to throw in the towel. That was 18 months ago.

Lurking on another forum, and found this very informative page. Warning, not a quick read! http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/RifledBarrelManuf/BarrelManufacture.htm THE MAKING OF A RIFLED BARREL. by Geoffrey Kolbe Of all the elements that make up the rifle it is the barrel that seems to hold the greatest mystique and mystery. Anybody with rudimentary knowledge of engineering practice could see vaguely how to make the action. Anybody with a lathe, a milling machine and the usual tooling of a small workshop - and the knowledge to use them - could make a bolt action. But the barrel, that is a different matter. How do you drill such a long straight hole to form the bore? How is the rifling put in? How is the shiny finish in the barrel achieved? And above all, what is that special something that differentiates a so-so barrel from a hummer? Each operation in the making of a rifle barrel requires a special machine tool rarely found outside a barrel shop. That said, there is no real mystery in making good rifle barrels. But it does take care and attention to detail. In this article I will outline the main processes involved in turning a bar of steel into a rifled barrel, indicating where barrel makers differ in their approach. The United States is the home of the custom barrel maker and there are literally hundreds of small barrels shops up and down the country - some still using unbelievably primitive equipment - who make barrels to the customers specifications. There are also some very large barrel makers who make barrels primarily for the trade. The common denominator is that making barrels is all they do. Very little of the turnover of these barrel makers comes from making actions or rifles or doing other gunsmithing. This picture contrasts very markedly with the rest of the world - except Australia where a country of 15 million population supports at least three barrel makers! Europe, with a population approaching three quarters of a billion has less than ten barrel makers, of whom only one is a "small" custom shop. Unlike the United States, the European tradition is that a rifle manufacturer will make everything in house and not subcontract to specialist manufacturers. There are exceptions such as Lothar Walther in Germany and Unique in France, who occupy the position of Douglas or Wilson Arms in the U.S. supplying barrels in quantity to the trade and also to the retail public. Great Britain, once the home of a vast gun trade centered in London and Birmingham, now only has two barrel makers outside the ordnance industries. THE STEEL. The barrel of any firearm is a pressure vessel with the action serving to stop up the rear end. The peak pressures involved during discharge are enormous, 50,000 pounds per square inch or more, and special steels are required to safely withstand these stresses. Two classes of steel are currently used in rifle barrels. Most barrels for use on hunting rifles and in military firearms are made from a high alloy Chrome Molybdenum steel of the sort used in high stress components such as truck axles, conrods and such. In the United States these steels are designated as 4140, 4150 and 4340 types. In Britain these steels are better known as EN 19 or EN 24. In target shooting stainless barrels have for the most part supplanted the use of Chrome Moly barrels. The steel is not a true, fully austenitic stainless such as is found in cutlery. The 416 type stainless steel used in barrels is one of a group of martensitic steels which can be hardened by heat treating like regular Carbon steels. 416 stainless is more accurately described as a "free machining, rust resistant" steel having a high Chrome content, around 10%, but with sulphur added to give it good machining qualities. It is widely considered that stainless barrels will have a longer life and are more accurate than Chrome Moly barrels. If stainless barrels are "shot in" using the prescribed procedure, the barrel aquires a burnishing which almost eliminates fouling, so making stainless barrels very easy to clean. Because stainless steel is more expensive than Chrome Moly steel and it is more difficult to black due to the Chrome content, high production makers of hunting and military rifles prefer to use Chrome Moly steels. But target shooters who want the best possible accuracy from their barrels are almost without exception choosing "stainless" barrels these days. The tensile strength of the steel is measured as the force required to break a rod of steel having a one inch cross sectional area by pulling it from its ends. The tensile strengths of steels used for making barrels should exceed 100,000 lb per square inch giving at least a factor of two safety margin over the chamber pressures experienced during firing. But the impact strength of the steel is probably even more important, this being the ability of the steel to withstand a sharp knock without breaking. Generally speaking, the tensile strength of a steel can be increased by hardening it. But as the hardness is increased, so the steel becomes more brittle and it becomes more susceptible to fracturing from a hard knock or sharp impact - or setting off a small explosion inside a tube of the stuff! A trade off must therefore be made of tensile strength against impact strength and for barrel steel the resultant hardness settled on is usually between 25 and 32 on the Rockwell C scale. The heat treatment and other production processes involved in making the steel bar leave residual stresses, which can result in the bar bending as steel is removed in making the barrel. The stress can be relieved by putting the steel in an oven and taking it up to 600 C, then allowing it to cool very slowly over the next twelve hours or so. Barrel steel is usually double stress relieved to make absolutely sure it stays straight through the various machining processes. DRILLING THE HOLE. Anybody who has tried to drill a straight hole more than an inch or so deep with an ordinary twist drill will know the problem. No matter how careful you are in lining the drill up to start with the hole will wander and bend and the drill will not come out quite where you expected. So how is it possible to drill a hole several feet down a rifle barrel and for the drill to come out to within a few thousandths of an inch of the centre? "What ever you make in life, you have to start with a hole." - Ernie Stallman, Badger Barrels, Wisconsin. The answer of course, is not to use a twist drill. Special drilling machines known as Gun Drills or Deep Hole Drills are used to drill deep accurate holes. On most older Gun Drills it is the barrel itself which is rotated at speeds of between two and five thousand r.p.m. and the stationary drill is fed through a tight fitting guide bush into the end of the barrel. The drill bit itself is asymmetric, cutting on one side only, and is make of Tungsten Carbide. The bit has a hole through it and is mounted on a long steel tube with a V groove down its outside. Coolant oil is forced down the tube at 1000 p.s.i or more to cool the drill and clear the swarf the drill produces. The oil and the swarf come down the V groove on the outside of the tube, the oil is then strained to remove the swarf before returning to the main tank. The drill progresses down the barrel at about one inch a minute, so it takes about half an hour to drill a barrel. This process and the drills themselves have remained unchanged for the last hundred years - except that the drill tips were not made of Carbide back then! The finish that the drill leaves inside the hole can be very good, but that is the exception rather than the rule. The hole is usually drilled about 5 thousandths under the size of the bore diameter and then a reamer is used to bring the hole up to size leaving a fine finish and a hole of uniform diameter from end to end. TIP OF A GUNDRILL. Doesn't look much like a regular twist drill!. Cutting oil is pumped at high pressure through the holes at the end of the drill. The drill only cuts on one side and the oil carries the swarf up the V groove on the outside of the drill and drill shaft. The drill is designed so that the forces acting on the drill tip tend to keep it on the central axis of rotation of the barrel. DEEP HOLE DRILLING MACHINE. The gundrill is attached to the pressure head at the bottom of the photo, where cutting oil is pumped down the drill shaft at high pressure. The drill is supported in the middle by a steady to give it added rigidity. The drill passes through a series of guide bushes before entering the barrel, which is being rotated by the spindle-head at the top of the photo. Oil is seen coming off the spout attached to the guide-bush-head and carries the swarf out from the hole in the barrel. The oil returns the main tank after passing through strainers to remove the swarf. REAMING THE HOLE. Every barrel maker I can think of who cut rifles or button rifles their barrels will ream prior to rifling. Makers of hammer forged barrels require a very fine surface finish in the bore and they invariably hone their barrels to get the required finish. "When two or three barrel makers gather together, the conversation turns to the difficulties and problems of reaming a good hole." - Observations of a barrel maker. The reamer is mounted on the end of a long tube through which the coolant oil is pumped, but at far lower pressures than are used in the Gun Drill. Now it is the reamer that is rotated, at about 200 rpm and the barrel is pulled over the reamer at about one inch a minute. Harold Hoffman's books on barrel making give descriptions and drawings of bore reamers which will be very familiar to readers of "Gunsmithing" by Roy Dunlap published in 1950, and even more familiar to readers of "Advanced Gunsmithing" by W.F.Vickery published in 1939! Would-be barrel makers who read these hallowed texts can be forgiven for thinking that reaming technology has not advanced much in sixty years and has reached level of perfection where improvement is difficult. Nothing can be further from the truth. Over the past few years there has been a quiet revolution in reamer technology and these days most bore reamers are made of Tungsten Carbide instead of High Speed Steel. Reamers made from Carbide last at least ten times longer than HSS ones and generally leave a superior surface finish. They can also be run at much higher feeds and speeds - 500 R.P.M and 10 inches a minute is not uncommon! Reamer shape has also changed. Reamers have become shorter and shorter over the past ten years and do not have pilots on them as reamers of old. Reaming a good hole is still something of an art though. Several barrel makers I know refuse to buy bore reamers claiming that you cannot buy a good bore reamer and I have to say there is something to that. Barrel makers who do buy their bore reamers get them from the reamer makers who advertise in this magazine, (Precision Shooting), but generally the reamer needs some hand honing to get it to "run right" and leave a good finish. In my experience, the only reamer maker whose reamers do not require attention before using them is Dan Green of Forgreens. Dan is a really great reamer maker and his chamber reamers are also quite outstanding - I only wish he would make reamers in Carbide! After reaming, the resultant hole has a good finish and has good dimensional uniformity along its length. The barrel is now ready for rifling. BORE REAMER ENTERING THE BARREL. After the barrel has been drilled, it is reamed up to the bore size. Here a bore reamer enters the barrel as copious amounts of cutting oil flushes the chips away. CUT RIFLING. There are currently three main methods by which rifling is put into the barrel. By far the oldest method, invented in Nuremberg in around 1492, is the cut rifling technique. Cut rifling creates spiral grooves in the barrel by removing steel using some form of cutter. In its traditional form, cut rifling may be described as a single point broaching system using a "hook" cutter. The cutter rests in the cutter box, a hardened steel cylinder made so it will just fit the reamed barrel blank and which also contains the cutter raising mechanism. "Cut rifling is a real hard way to go. I can't think why anyone should go that route." - I forget the name of the Australian reloading tool maker who made this observation, but there have been times when I have heartily agreed with him! The cutter box is mounted on a long steel tube, through which coolant oil is pumped, and which pulls the cutter box through the barrel to cut the groove. As it is pulled through it is also rotated at a predetermined rate to give the necessary rifling twist. A passing cut is made down each groove sequentially and each cut removes only about one ten thousandth of an inch from the groove depth. After each passing cut the barrel is indexed around so that the next groove is presented for its passing cut. After each index cycle the cutter is raised incrementally to cut a ten thousandth deeper on the next cycle, this process being continued until the desired groove diameter is reached. It takes upwards of an hour to finish rifling a barrel by this method. The rifling machines found in custom barrel shops are invariably Pratt & Whitney machines. For the first world war some thousands of "Sine Bar" riflers, so called because a sine bar is used to determine the rate of twist, were built to satisfy the demand for barrels at that time. These belt driven single spindle machines weighed about a ton and were suitable for the wooden floored workshops of that era. After WW1 many of these machines became available quite cheaply on the surplus market and so in the inter-war years these were the standard rifling machine in barrel shops across the World. P & W SINE BAR RIFLING MACHINE. The classic rifling machine! P & W started making these machines over 100 years ago and these "Universal" rifling machines formed the backbone of the barrel making business up until WW2. This one was made in 1895! At the start of World War Two, Pratt & Whitney developed a new, "B" series of hydraulically powered rifling machines, which were in fact two machines on the same bed. They weighed in at three tons and required the concrete floors now generally seen in workshops by this time. About two thousand were built to satisfy the new demand for rifle barrels, but many were broken up after the war or sold to emerging third world countries building up their own arms industry. Very few of these hydraulic machines subsequently became available on the surplus market and now it is these machines which are sought after and used by barrel makers like John Krieger and "Boots" Obermeyer. In fact, there are probably less of be "B" series hydraulic riflers around today than of the older "Sine Bar" universal riflers. PRATT & WHITNEY HYDRAULIC RIFLING MACHINE. In the late 1930's the venerable Sine Bar rifler was replaced by the "B" series hydraulic rifling machines. These twin spindle machines were altogether more massive, more rigid and more powerful. During WW2, much faster methods of rifling were developed and superseded single point cut rifling as a technology for mass production of rifled barrels. These machines remain, then, the zenith of cut rifling technology. During World War Two several other methods of rifling barrels were developed which greatly speeded up and simplified the process. So the Pratt & Whitney "B" series of Hydraulic riflers remain the last word in cut rifling machine technology. Due to the very limited availability of these machines there are several barrel makers who have made their own machines. But, as will be appreciated from the description of the process above, these machines are complex and expensive to build. The techniques of cut rifling has not stood still since the end of the war though. Largely due to the efforts of Boots Obermeyer the design, manufacture and maintenance of the hook cutter and the cutter box has been refined and developed so that barrels of superb accuracy have come from his shop. Cut rifled barrel makers like John Krieger (Krieger Barrels), Mark Chanlyn (Rocky Mountain Rifle Works) and Cliff Labounty (Labounty Precision Reboring) who are fast growing in prominence for the quality and accuracy of their barrels, learned much of their art from Boots Obermeyer, as did I. In Europe, Shultz & Larson in Denmark were the outstanding protagonists of the cut rifling method and were making 8000 barrels a year. But adherence to workshop methods more suited to the beginning of this century, rather than its end, allowed competitors with newer technology to take their markets. They closed their doors just a few years ago. Grunig & Elminger in Switzerland cut rifle their barrels, and Furlac in Austria still make their larger calibre hunting barrels by cut rifling. Tikka, the Finnish hunting rifle makers used to cut rifle some of their barrels, but now that Sako have taken them over, their barrels are made by Sako whose barrels are hammered. RIFLING "HOOK" CUTTER. The heart of the cut rifling method, making and maintaining these cutters require great skill. RIFLING CUTTER HEAD. The "hook" cutter is seen sitting in its box in the middle of the cutter head. The cutter sits on a wedge and as the screw at the end of the head is turned, it forces the wedge under the cutter so raising it to increase the depth of cut. BUTTON RIFLING. Up until WW2 rifling was the most time consuming operation in making a rifle barrel and so a lot of effort was put into finding a way to speed up this process. Button rifling is a process that has been flirted with on and off by various large ordinance factories since the end of the 19th century. Today, button rifling is a cold forming process in which a Tungsten Carbide former, which is ground to have the rifling form in high relief upon it, is pulled through the drilled and reamed barrel blank. The lands on the button engrave grooves in the barrel as it is pulled through. "Any fool can pull a button through a barrel!" - Boots Obermeyer. The machinery is quite simple. The button is mounted on a long rod of high tensile steel which is passed through the barrel blank and attached to a large hydraulic ram. The button is mounted in a "rifling head" that rotates the button at the desired pitch or twist as the button is pulled through the barrel. The process takes about a minute to complete. RIFLING BUTTONS. These are "pull" buttons that are pulled through the barrel. The left hand button is a simple rifling button. The slots cut into the button mean the button does not engrave the barrel in that area and as a result, lands are left in the barrel. The lands left by this simple rifling button tend to have raised burrs on their edges. The combination button on the right has a sizing button to follow the rifling button which presses the burrs back down, so leaving the land tops conforming to the bore circle as they should. BUTTON RIFLING MACHINE. The barrel can be seen in the middle of the picture. The right hand end of the barrel is held against a thick steel pressure plate. The button is seen about to enter the barrel at its left hand end. At the other end of the barrel the pull-rod is attached via the twisting-spindle to a frame, which is pushed by the two hydraulic rams above and below the barrel. As the frame is pushed to the right the button is pulled through the barrel - it needs a lot of force to pull a button through a barrel! The twisting-spindle is driven by the rack and gear seen at the right hand end of the photo so that the button is positively driven at the desired rifling twist, preventing button slippage. Breaking the pull-rod or pulling the button off the pull rod is a constant danger in "pull" button rifling, so there are several manufacturers like Hart, for example, who prefer to push the button through the barrel. In this version of the method the button is not attached to the rod, which simply pushes the button up the barrel under the influence of a large hydraulic ram. The trick here is to support the push-rod as it enters the barrel to stop it buckling from the huge forces involved. There is much opinion that "pull" button rifling is best because the button is kept straight and true as it is pulled through, whereas when pushing the button though the barrel there is an inevitable tendency for the button to tip and yaw so leading to variable bore dimensions. Push-buttoning protagonists deny that this is a problem however - as of course, they would! Whilst the process is simple, the technology required to get good results is quite advanced which is why it was not until the middle of this century that it became a generally used technique. It was perfected in the late 1940's at the Remington factory at Ilion largely due to the efforts of Mike Walker, who used the workshop of Clyde Hart in nearby Lafayette for some of the experimental work. The button must be very hard and also tough enough not the break up under the stresses involved as it is pulled through the barrel. The lubricants used to keep the button from getting stuck in the barrel must not break down under the very high pressures involved - it takes around 10,000 pounds of force to pull a button down a barrel. The sort of lubricants used in the press moulding business are what button barrel makers pick through to see what suits, though most makers of button rifled barrels are very secretive about lubricant they use! Button rifling in its common form is an American development and the overwhelming majority of barrels made in the US are rifled this way. Custom shops such as Hart, Lilja, Shilen and the large high production barrel makers like Douglas and Wilson Arms use the buttoning method to rifle their barrels. The technology has spread and there are a few other small custom barrel makers around the world who do button rifling. Neville Madden (Maddco) and Dennis Tobler in Australia. Anshutz in Germany, better known for their .22 target rifles but also a large producer of hunting rifles also button their barrels. In Europe, where larger more centralised armament factories predominate, the cold forging method of making "hammered" barrels is generally preferred. HAMMER RIFLING. The technique of hammer forging rifle barrels was developed by Germany before WW2 because the MG42 machine gun, with 1200 rounds per minute rate of fire, positively ate barrels. The first hammer rifling machine was built in Erfurt in 1939. At the end of the war it was shipped down to Austria ahead of the advancing Russian army, where American technicians were able to get a good look at it. In this process the barrel blank is usually somewhat shorter than the finished barrel. It is drilled and honed to a diameter large enough to allow a Tungsten Carbide mandrel, which has the rifling in high relief on it, to pass down the blank. The blank is then progressively hammered around the mandrel by opposing hammers using a process called rotary forging. The hammered blank is squeezed off the mandrel like tooth paste and finishes up 30% or so longer than it started. Today, barrel hammering machines are built by Gesellschaft Fur Fertigungstechnik und Maschinenbau (GFM) in Steyr, Austria. They cost about a half a million dollars and can spit out a barrel every three minutes. These machines have reached a very high degree of development and are so sophisticated that they will not only hammer the rifling into the barrel, but it is also possible to chamber it and profile the outside of the barrel all in the one operation. Only large scale arms manufacturers and ordinance factories have pockets deep enough and barrel requirements insatiable enough that they can afford to buy and run such a machine. Hammered barrels have never achieved much favour in target shooting. Whilst their proponents laud the virtues of the mirror finish of the bore and its work hardened surface, which gives long life, the barrels tend to be very variable in the uniformity of their dimensions down their length. Also, because the metal is worked completely throughout the barrel there are considerable radial stresses induced which are difficult to remove completely by the usual stress relieving methods. Stainless steels tend to work harden to a much higher degree than Chrome Molybdenum steels and so do not remain malleable enough to hammer forge. Because of this, it is difficult to make stainless barrels this way. Stainless barrels are being hammer forged, but using type 410 steel which has a lower chrome content than the regular 416 steel usually used for making barrels by other methods. Most of the big hunting rifle makers in Europe hammer forge their barrels. Sako and Tikka in Finland, Heckler & Koch, Steyr and Sauer in Austria. Now, Ruger in the US has started making barrels using this method. PROFILING. Profiling the barrel can be done on a regular lathe, but as the barrel is relatively very thin for its length it is not very stiff it is difficult to machine the middle part of the barrel without inducing a lot of chatter, which can ruin the finish and in bad cases even bend the barrel. Also, one is really limited to straight taper profiles achieved by offsetting the tailstock. To reproduce the curving lines of most sporter and bigbore target rifle barrels in a reasonable time requires the use of a proper profiling lathe which has a hydraulic copy attachment and a self centering steady. The hydraulic copy unit has a sensitive stylus which follows the shape of the pattern, which is usually mounted on a rail behind the lathe bed. As the automatic feed moves the saddle down the bed of the lathe, so the stylus follows the contours of the pattern. The cutting tool is mounted on a hydraulically actuated tool post and mimics the movements of the stylus, so reproducing the shape of the pattern. To hold the barrel steady and stop it from vibrating a hydraulic or pneumatically operated steady follows a few inches behind the cutter. This consists of three rollers which clamp on the barrel and which are linked so that if one moves radially in or out then the others follow it. This allows the steady to adjust for the changing diameter of the barrel as the tool and steady move from the thin muzzle the thick reinforce. When profiling a barrel a lot of metal is removed and if there is any stress in the metal then this is relieved by the removal of material. This may result in a barrel that started out as straight ending up as bent. This is not usually a problem when cut rifling a barrel as this does not induce any stress, but button rifling induces a fair amount of radial stress which is relieved by turning the barrel down. What happens then is that as you remove metal from the outside so the dimensions on the inside grow larger. If you turn a sporter barrel with a skinny muzzle from a buttoned blank then you find the barrel is bell mouthed and the bore diameter is a thou' or more bigger at the muzzle than the chamber - definitely, not good! Buttoned barrel blanks have to be stress relieved before profiling to prevent this expansion at the muzzle. PROFILING LATHE. The cutting tool is attached to a hydraulic copy unit, the pattern following stylus of which can be seen in the bottom right hand part of the picture near the pattern barrel. The three jaw self centering steady can be seen in the middle of the picture. This follows just behind the cutting tool, keeping the barrel rigid. LAPPING. "No need for it, just wears the barrel out!"- P. O. Ackley. Lead lapping the barrel is done to polish the bore and remove machining marks and also to remove any tight spots in the barrel and make it dimensionally uniform end to end. If you were to sit down and write a top ten list of barrel makers, past or present, almost all would lap their barrels. This process is usually done by hand, though the process is mechanized in larger shops. It also acts an inspection process for the barrel maker who can feel what is going on up the barrel. First, the lapping rod (an old cleaning rod) is passed up the barrel to within about four inches of the end and then, with the barrel held vertical, molten lead is poured into the barrel. The lead freezes onto the end of the lapping rod forming a cast which precisely matches the inside form and dimensions of the barrel. The lead lap is then pushed out and smeared with lapping paste like that used for valve grinding. The lead lap is then pulled and pushed up and down the length of the barrel for several hundred strokes occasionally adding more paste or oil. Because the big particles of grit are embedded more deeply in the lead than the small particles there is an even bearing pressure from all the particles of grit onto the steel of the barrel. The net effect is to polish the barrel rather than scratch it which would leave a mat finish. Lapping the barrel adds between one and three tenths of a thou' to the bore and groove diameters of the barrel and is used by most small custom barrel makers as the finishing process on the inside of the barrel. Lapping a barrel will improve the performance of almost any barrel - in some cases, startlingly so! Generally, lapped barrels will shoot well from the word go where as the same barrel not lapped may take a thousand rounds or so until it starts performing at its best. Contrary to Ackley's dictum, lapping will add to the accurate life of a barrel, not detract from it. LAPPING A BARREL. Yours truly taking some exercise at the lapping bench! WHAT MAKES A BARREL ACCURATE. Some people want their barrel dimensions accurate to the nearest tenth of a thou'. But in truth, the golden rule seems to be that the groove diameter must be same or less than the bullet diameter to get good accuracy. It does not seem to matter how much less you make it, one tenth of a thou' or one thou' - so long as it is less. As a general rule, barrels with shallow grooves are better than those with deep grooves because the bullet will be distorted less. Barrels with shallow grooves reach their best quicker than deep grooved barrels - but they certainly do not last as long. Some people say that the finish in the barrel is important and the better the finish, the better the barrel. What seems to be true is that if the finish is too good, less than 10 microinch roughness, then metal fouling tends to become a problem. It seems that in a "rough" barrel, the bullet rides on the high spots and so there is relatively little friction. But the smoother the barrel gets then the greater the surface contact with the bullet. The friction goes up and more bullet jacket gets left behind. Of course, if the barrel is too rough, then this just picks up metal and acts like sandpaper on the bullet. But there is a band of surface roughness where metal fouling is minimized which is between 10 and 20 microinches. There have been many claims over the years that different forms of rifling profile will give better results. But so far, there is no conclusive proof that the so called concentric form almost universally used these days is any worse than any other - or any better! What is important is that the bore and groove dimensions are uniform down the length of the barrel, that the twist rate is uniform and that the groove circle is concentric with the bore. Many think a slight choke at the muzzle end of a ten thousandth or so will improve accuracy. But bench rest shooters have shown that parallel barrels seem to win more matches than choked ones. The exception is barrels which shoot lead bullets, like .22 Rimfire barrels and air rifle barrels. These barrels definitely shoot better if there is a slight choking in the barrel. The barrel should also be completely free of stress so that as it warms up during a course of fire the barrel does not bend so leading to group shifting. WHICH METHOD MAKES THE BEST RIFLE BARRELS? Here that at Border Barrels we used to exclusively cut rifled until the demand for our barrels outstripped capacity. The principle problem was (and is) the availability of cut rifling machines - you don't exactly trip over them at machinery auctions. Also, a high level of skill is required to maintain the tooling. Like all old technologies, cut rifling is slow and requires a high level of skill to make and maintain the tooling. This makes it expensive. The other side of the coin is that the tooling is readily made with simple machine tools and is very flexible - by which I mean that a large range of twists and bore dimensions and numbers of grooves are readily achieved using the same cutter and cutter box. This makes cut rifling is an efficient way to go if you are making custom barrels in one's and two's to a customers specific requirements and you can charge a hefty sum for your efforts. But cut rifling machines are expensive to buy and expensive to operate. Having started out as a custom barrel maker making custom barrels in one's and two's, we found that more and more of our work was in longer and longer runs of barrels of the same type and when it takes an hour or more to rifle a barrel, it sure leads to long days. So we invested in plant for button rifling. The button rifling machine is relatively simple and cheap to build, (compared to a cut rifling machine), and the buttons are also available and very cheap - in terms of tooling cost per barrel. Also, no real skill is required to pull a button down a barrel. Boots was right! What all this is leading up to is that we have experience in making barrels using the two methods most commonly used in making top quality target rifle barrels and we can be pretty objective about the pro's and con's of cut rifling and button rifling. Hammer forged barrels do not have a very visible presence in the accurate gun world, so I will confine this discussion as to the relative merits of cut versus button rifled barrels. If it is so easy to rifle barrels using a button, why do some barrel makers persist in the difficult, time consuming art of cut rifling? As outlined above it is critical in an accurate barrel that bore and groove dimensions be uniform end to end. When buttoning a barrel then it is critical that the steel be very homogeneous and of uniform hardness along the bar. If not then the button will engrave deeper into the soft parts than the hard parts so giving varying dimensions down the barrel. The button rifled barrel maker is very much in the hands of his steel mill to supply him with uniform, homogeneous steel. The depth of engraving of the button depends also on the thickness of the bar at the point where the button is. If the bar is thin then the metal can then just expand elastically allowing the button the pass without doing much engraving. If the bar is thick there is more resistance to the button and so it will engrave deeper. To hope to get uniform bore dimensions it is critical to pull the button through a blank which has the form of a parallel cylinder. A button rifled barrel must be rifled and then stress relieved before it is profiled. There is always the problem that any residual stresses are going to make the barrel move when profiling, so leaving you with a barrel that is bent or bell-mouthed. The tendency of the bore dimensions of non-stress relieved buttoned barrels to expand on profiling the outside had been used by some manufactures to advantage. Barrels having bore dimensions that vary over the length can be made to shoot well if the muzzle end is the tightest part of the barrel. The bullet will then make a clean exit without gas leaking around the sides to destabilize it. When mass producing barrels it is then possible to allow a fair degree of variation in the bore and groove dimensions down the barrel, provided some choking at the muzzle is included in the manufacturing process. If the buttoned barrel blank is profiled so that the last inch or so at the muzzle end is left at a larger diameter than the rest of the barrel, the expansion of the bore dimensions will be least at the muzzle so leaving a slight choke. That is why the barrels on almost all .22 target rifles look the way they do. Cut rifling a barrel puts no stress in the steel and so it is possible to profile the barrel after the drilling stage. Any moving around the barrel is going to do will be done and the barrel can be reamed and rifled after profiling. The problem of stress induced changes in bore dimensions during manufacture can be eliminated. When making fluted barrels, the fear is always there that putting, say, six flutes on the outside of the barrel will leave the bore shaped like a hexagon instead of round. (Like it should be!) With cut rifling, the barrel can be completely profiled and fluted after the drilling stage and then reamed and rifled. All the niggling doubts as to whether fluting the barrel will ruin it can be dispelled if it is done this way - but this manufacturing route in not available to you when you button rifle a barrel. The exact twist of a buttoned barrel is also unpredictable. The button tends to slip in the barrel so what set out to be a 12 inch twist may end up as a 12.5 inch twist. This is not a problem if the twist is uniform, but if it varies down the barrel - particularly if it slows - then like as not, it will not shoot. Another problem, is that the button may not engrave as deep on one side as on the other so leaving a groove circle that is not concentric with the bore. The result is bullets leaving the barrel which are not balanced and so unstable. This becomes less of a problem if you have lots of shallow grooves instead of a few deep ones. Selection is the key to success with buttoned barrels and barrel makers like Hart, Douglas and Shillen grade their barrels by using an air gauge to judge the uniformity of bore and groove dimensions in each barrel. Ultra Premium Select barrels carry a premium price tag and are used by the bench rest fraternity. The lower grades get turned into regular target barrels and sporter barrels. None of these problems arise in traditional single point cut rifling a barrel. Groove circle and bore are always very concentric. Because very little work is being done on each passing cut the twist rate is very consistent and very uniform. As a general rule, I find that button rifled barrels are not as uniform in bore dimensions straight off the machine as a cut rifled barrel. Button rifled barrels usually need a deal more lapping than a cut rifled barrel due to this problem. Exact dimensions are easier to achieve by cut rifling and are not dependent on the hardness or thickness or type of steel as they are in buttoning. No stress is put into the barrel by cut rifling so no stress relieving is needed. Many people think that the superior finish in a button rifled barrel must mean it will shoot better. In the first place, the surface finish that counts is the longitudinal surface finish, down the length of the grooves. The tool marks in cut rifled barrels go in just this direction, so causing mini-lands which are quite uniform down the length of the barrel. The transverse "roughness" caused by the lands are never viewed as an impediment to accuracy, so the mini-lands left by the tool marks in cut rifled barrels will also not affect accuracy. In the second place, the final finish in the barrel is determined by the lapping. If the cut rifling barrel maker has paid attention and kept his cutter sharp to minimize tool marks, then after lapping only a very experienced eye will be able to tell the difference between the cut rifled and the button rifled barrel. I believe that you are more likely to get a top of the line tack driver by cut rifling a barrel than by any other method. Bench rest shooters in the States are rediscovering the cut rifled barrel and there may well be a revolution when cut rifled barrel makers, who have been quietly persisting over the years with this demanding technique, find shooters at the very highest levels of accuracy banging on the doors of their barrel shops. Home | Top

I grew up as a comic book reader, this type of thing happens all the time.... there's always some crossover or hero retirement. They have to do this because if not.... the stories and characters would get stale and people would stop caring. Look at Spiderman... he's been rebooted more times than you can count..... there's even a girly spidey.....    

I hate to see this happen to any gun company, but especially an American gun company that is expanding to the South. I suspect Remington will try to make it right with the people that bought them.

Reminds me of my dad. He is a retired postal supervisor with 38+ years of service. While vacationing in Brevard NC a few years back he needed change for the newspaper box located in front of the post office. He politely asked the window clerk if she would break a dollar for him. She said no, and proceeded to give him a lengthy lecture on how far it was to the bank, having limited funds available, serving postal customers only, etc. Dad waited until she had finished the lecture and asked if she had any one cent stamps available. When told yes, he gave her a twenty dollar bill and asked for two. While she gave him the stamps and counted back the change, he thanked her, and repeated back most of her lecture on how far the bank was, how long it took to get there,etc. My mom refused to ever go to that Post Office with him again.

you know, i greatly respect tolkien.  He invented entire languages, and if he did not invent fantasy writings, he certainly did a LOT to make it more popular.  But I can't read his stuff.  The LOTRO trilogy drags on and on at a snails pace, you FEEL like you are right there with em, through the entire trek, for years on end ... if that was his goal, he met and exceeded it.   The movies at least had the good sense to fast forward the dull bits, and even doing that they are still a bit slow.   And the LOTRO trilogy is fast paced excitement compared to the rest of his writings. 

Sounds like they didn't adapt their business model in the wake of internet sales. Modern gun stores have to do more that just sell guns and accessories; they have to provide things that can't be obtained online to stay viable.

Reminds me of that saying, sleep with dogs and get fleas... I'm still glad no one was killed. 

I'm not sure 336 and safe queen even belong in the same sentence. I think the synonym for 336 is "work horse".

If you cook ribs anyway besides how parrothead instructed, you are committing a mortal sin. 3-2-1 method is where it's at. Anybody who would crock pot ribs clearly just moved down here from somewhere north of ky....

I was like this for about 15 years then finally figured out what works best, for me at least. I use a dry rub on the ribs, wrap them in foil and before I seal the foil I add a mixture of beer, soy or Worcester and a little water. I don't add too much, enough to steam the ribs in the foil. Low and slow on the grill, you'll smell when the magic is happening. I'll flip em once. Once they're done, I'll take em out of the foil and put em on the grill, add sauce. Sometimes they are so tender they fall off the bone to the point you can't add sauce. Best of luck with learning your rib recipe.

If you are a complete kitchen stranger then get a Crockpot and your favorite BBQ sauce and put them to cook overnight or longer on low heat.... There is just about a 100 % chances that they will suck right off the bone and taste flipping great....

I knew when Haslam was running for governor that he wasn't nearly as pro-gun as he tried to paint himself. This really is not much of a surprise. The only real surprise is that he got caught. 

Some of you may know, I work for DCS in the field of Juvenile Justice and this week I attended a juvenile court hearing on the transfer of two juveniles to adult court.  They were charged with Aggravated Robbery and Aggravated Burglary in a home invasion on June 20th in Martin, TN.  Both were bound over to Circuit Court and now I can tell the rest of the story.   Will begin with the newspaper article, a 22 year old man awoke to find 4 males in his bedroom, in which, he hit in the face with a SKS rifle.  Later beaten up while the males tore through is house, eventually stealing his game consoles, some cash and credit cards.  They also poured water on his two TV’s. I had many questions about the robbery and wondered why this 22 year old was targeted.  I went to his Facebook page and saw he was friends with some of my past clients to include drug dealers and users.  So hmmmm????   All came to light in the transfer hearing and was very interesting.  The victim was targeted due to that he was a small time drug dealer and was rumored to have $2K in cash and large amount of marijuana in the home.  When the 4 came into his house, they were demanding the money and “weed”.  Unable to find what they wanted, they roughed him up more and tore up his house.  Further testimony indicated this invasion was planned out at least a week in advance where my 16 year old probation client was recruiting an adult (that I had the pleasure of knowing from my work) and his young adult tipped off the soon to be victim.  Two times prior to the robbery, the victim stated that someone came to his door asking to use the phone at 2:30 am.  It was apparent to me, these thugs were probing the victim’s defenses and responses.  Turns out, there was no SKS involved; the thugs used metal pellet guns, two of which resembled MP-5’s.  How were they caught?  The victim went to the hospital with a broken nose and gash on his head and police became involved.  The used the text message he received and connected one of the dots to the 16 year old and later one of his game consoles was turned out and the IP address led to one of the other invaders.  Another invader, when going to be questioned by police was wearing the victims expensive clothing.    To sum up, there are probably many more of these types of episodes where the victim is involved in shady life doesn't want to be on police radar or fear from the thugs.

Well, it's not like we have a free market anyways....

I've said since the first sanctions that he'll hit Russian ammo exports. Hope I'm wrong about that.   - OS

Ya never to old to learn. :wave:

  Well, again, that was only my opinion -- my opinion is also that a gunbuster sign alone does not ban knife carry under the provisions of the statute.   Be sure to print out and hand them my opinion if they confront you. ;)   - OS

  Tolkien's writings are no doubt an acquired taste, and any attempt to create an entire mythology/history of a fictional world will necessarily be more of a "slow read" than the typical fiction which is adapted by Hollywood.  While I enjoyed the movies and will easily admit that they are, thus far, the best adaptation yet of his work, I still much prefer the books to the movies, including the lesser known works such as "the Book of Lost Tales" and "Quenta Noldorinwa".

It'd be nice to have a building made of those bricks!

  I had to re-read the very fist sentence several times before I realized that I did not read it incorrectly.   I had low expectations, but this "article" broke all expectations and was unbelievable.

Wow. I had no idea that pistols and revolvers were the 2 most dangerous kinds of handguns and that rifles and shotguns were the most dangerous long guns.   I thought most crimes were commited with muskets and blunderbusses. I'm glad I checked out that informative article.           In other news, the 2 most dangerous knives are 1) those with blades under 4" and 2) those with blades at or beyond 4". It's astonishing stuff!

  Hey, if you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic that isn't moving then you ain't outrunning anything.     If traffic were such that you couldn't simply drive away, how long would you continue smiling and waving after he started smashing your car windows with that baseball bat?   What I am saying is that, in certain circumstances, just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean that person couldn't possibly pose a threat.  A ball bat to the cranium is a ball bat to the cranium.  Also, I wouldn't assume that just because someone is in a power chair that they can't stand, at all.  Some folks use those because they can't walk a whole lot, not because they are confined to them just to get around.   I am not saying that the first response should be to shoot.  Driving away, if possible, is certainly the better approach.  Still, treating someone with a baseball bat as if they could not, possibly pose a threat - power chair or not - is a mistake, IMO.   All that said, on a somewhat lighter note, something about the whole thing did make me think of this scene from Seinfeld:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csuZHyW-iGI

    Allegro.... :up:   Ever tried their "hot & spicy?"  It's most excellent!

Very nice looking Glock, congrats.

  Bite me.... While I'll admit its a cheaters method I'm simply not home enough to warrant playing with a smoker... More power to ya but I don't got that time!

The runs of poor crafted ones actually came out of the same old Marlin plant in North Haven where they had been made all along. I really think it was mostly due to their equipment line ailing toward the end up there after Remington bought them, and Rem being unwilling to throw the money at the problem in the old plant.   I too expect the rifles coming out of Ilion and Mayfield to be reasonably back up to snuff, and from what few I've seen and what I've read in the last year or so, seems they are. Though of course, we'll never see the same craftsmanship of Marlin in it's long heyday -- but you can say that about most manufacturers. It's cut some corners on spit and finish or charge so much they'd stay in the hole.   - OS

Nice !

If the TEOTWAWKI (The end of the world as we know it) is a serious concern, then a manually-operated .22 is the logical choice.  No worrying about whether it will fit or feed.  And I would recommend a high-quality .22.   Actually, I can't think of many reasons not to recommend that all firearms purchases be of a quality that you can pass down to grandchildren or further.  Don't pass up used rifles if you have the ability to reassure yourself of it's condition.  Older Marlins, Winchesters, and Remingtons are some of the finest examples of American gunmaking.

I agree with OS.  They don't really cost you anything just sitting there, but could cost a small fortune to replace later. 

I'm in Sargent's district and trying as hard as I can to help get him removed this go around, does anyone have any examples of other specific legislation that this group have killed the same way? While firearms are a key issue for me, they aren't for everyone and I'd love to be able to hand them a list showing a pattern of this behavior from the finance committee.

Yep.  I have been known to slice fresh habaneros up in my beans.  I have been known to cut fresh ghost peppers into (thin) slices and eat them straight up.  Heck, some of my buddies and I got together last Sunday and our host - who made bratwurst cooked in beer (yum) had a bowl of diced, fresh habaneros and ghost chiles to put on our brats (along with the green tomato, tomatillo and ghost chile chow chow that I made last week.)  All that said, ghost chiles average around one million Scoville units (twice as hot as some of the hottest habaneros - the hottest jalapenos top out around 10,000 Scoville) while the burger in the article, above (according to another article I read) is estimated to be around seven to nine million Scoville.  Seven to nine times hotter than a ghost chile.  I'm not sure that even I would want to try that.  Okay, maybe a little bite - but I'm not eating a whole one.   In Oak Ridge there is a place near the pool that is called "The Other One'.  They have burgers, sandwiches and the like.  Their burger menu is huge and has some oddities (including one burger that has two grilled cheese sandwiches as the 'buns'.)  They have one burger on which you can have any or all of the following:  Sauteed serranos (I think), sauteed jalapenos, sauteed habaneros and/or sauteed ghost chiles.  I have only been there once and unfortunately it was at a time when they didn't have any fresh ghost peppers, only dried, so I opted to go with all the peppers except for the ghost (I will go back soon now that fresh ghost peppers are available.)  There is a flashing, 'siren' type light they turn on whenever they are doing a burger with those peppers because they have basically an open kitchen and apparently want to warn the other patrons that they are about to get pepper gassed.  They had a special burger the day I was there which had chorizo mixed into the ground beef (not something they have all the time.)  That burger had pepper jack cheese, a cayenne based spice blend and chipotle mayonnaise.  It seems like their might have been some kind of house-made hot sauce, too, but I can't swear to it.  I ordered that burger with the aforementioned blend of sauteed chile peppers.  It was delicious.

While I wouldn't even consider trying something that hot/spicy, unless being paid large sums of money, that it very funny.

I've never understood stuff like that. If it's so hot that you can't taste anything, what's the point?

It is all coded in Federal Regulations, not ATF policy, so it would take a lot more than just a petition. Heck if the President himself wanted to remove anything from the NFA system he could not do it. Even if the ATF wanted to do away with NFA registration they could not because it is Federal law and that requires legislation to change. Changing the Federal Regulations would require the full support of both houses, as well as the President, to make it happen and that will NEVER happen. You can't get both houses, and the President, to agree on something as serious as a budget. That alone makes me think they would never come together on something small like this. I am glad they have not raised prices to current inflation since 1934. I did the math once and it would be close to $10K rather than $200. Personally ownership of inanimate objects should not be regulated at all. What should be regulated is the person owning the item. That is if I can legally own a single shot 22 I should be able to legally own a 50 BMG machine gun in the same manner. If I want to own a tank, hand grenades or a fighter jet I should be able to if I can own a 22 and if I can afford it. As far as who should be regulated it should NOT be broken down by felonies and misdemeanors. It should be broken down by violent offenders regardless to whether the crime is a misdemeanor or felony. If a person has been convicted of committing a non violent felony they should not be barred from owning a firearm but if a person is convicted of a violent crime, even if it is a misdemeanor, they should not be allowed to own a firearm. The reason is those who have a propensity for violence also have self control issues. Even if the person were sentenced to several decades in jail for a non violent crime they should be able to own a firearm once they have completed all of their sentence including probation. But if a person was convicted and sentenced to a day in jail for a violent crime. even if it is a misdemeanor, they should not be allowed to own a firearm. As far as the mentally ill it should also be about violence. If someone with a mental defect has never shown a propensity for violence, on or off medication, they should be allowed to own a firearm. Those that have been violent, even if it is currently controlled by medication, should never be allowed to own a firearm until they can live medication free without being violent. And what medication a person may have taken in the past should not be preclude ownership, only actual actions should determine it. There are a lot of people who have been committed for evaluations that will not be allowed to own a firearm even though they were never violent. Imagine loosing a child or a loved one, a lot of people would require some sort of medication or possibly counselling to come to terms with it but were not violent and those imdividuals should not be prevented from owning a firearm. Now those who are banned from firearm ownership should have a means to restore their ability to own a firearm. It will not be quick or easy but it will be possible. And the first criteria should be living as a model citizen for at least a decade after they have completed their sentence. And finally, illegal drug use. The use of illegal drugs should not keep you from owning a firearm unless those drugs are making you violent. Even today there are people getting denied on the background checks because they have been prescribed medical marijuana and then try to buy a firearm. The reason is because marijuana is an illegal drug according to the federal government so when a person, who is using medical marijuana, answers "NO" to the question asking if they are an unlawful user of marijuana they are lying on the form. Until the federal laws are changed any person using marijuana, even for medical reasons, is breaking federal law and that requires a person to answer "YES" to that question. I personally think any and all drugs should be legal so long as it does not affect anyone else. What I ingest in my own home should be my business and no one else's.

L4YER CAK3   IDK, just like it.  A lot.

Thats a good looking deer rifle!  These next 4.5 months will go by slowly for you I'm sure!  

Beautiful rifle, and good shootin'! Hope to see it laying on top of downed brown this deer season!!

    From what I've read, these functioned like pre-beta samples.            To paraphrase prior conversations I've had....     Manager - "The cost is too high, we've got to implement these changes to get the cost down to our target before launch".  (because I won't get my fat bonus check if we don't)   Engineer - "Those changes haven't been validated.  We need another 8 weeks for that."   Manager - "No, the timeline isn't going to change.  You have to accelerate the validation program."   Engineer - "I can't.  It takes time to produce the hardware and run the tests.  9 women can't have a baby in a month."   <- yes, I actually said that once.   Manager - "Just implement them.  You can smooth out the rough edges later."   Engineer - "It's a lot more than just rough edges...   Launch could be a total train wreck."   Manager - "Whatever, either reduce the cost or senior management will go nuts."   Engineer - "Fine, you're the boss.  But this will probably be ugly."   *train wreck occurs*   Manager - "You idiots!  Can't you do anything?!  I'm sorry mr. senior manager, I have no idea what these dang engineers were thinking not validating those changes...."

You sound like my father. Nothing like driving around town with him looking for a gas station that's a penny cheaper than the rest. :shake:   I guess I value my time and sanity more than a dollar.

Well just left G&L. Should go without saying but I'll say it anyway, the crew over there is top notch all the way. Shield is up and running and shoots really well. Very pleased.