Arrests for student loan defaults

[E4 No More]

Increasingly, more doctors and lawyers are starting to have these conversations.  Doctors are being hit from all sides.  As debt loads increase, salaries are less, insurance costs are up, and other factors come into play - a lot of students are looking at it and deciding it's not worth it.

 

Law is changing, too.  A lot of students are looking at the traditional model of working 80+ hours a week in a big firm for peanuts for years before maybe becoming a partner and are pushing back.  Couple that with the fact that there are some other routes available to law school.  Nashville School of Law is a great example.  Students take a class or two at a time, and it's pay as you go.  Almost all work and go to school at night - they graduate with little or no debt.  Some big school lawyers speak poorly of it, but those are generally ones who haven't been up against them in court.  I remember talking to a colleague who was Harvard Law educated talking about getting his tail end handed to him by a Nashville School of Law graduate in the court room.

That's funny. I entertained the thought of becoming a lawyer when I got burnt-out with the police department. I looked at the cost of school versus the entry-level salaries of the average student of $24,000, laughed, and went another course. The irony is I still got screwed with the choice I did take. :shrug:

[Ugly]

One thing we didn't seem to touch on here is the fact education (period) was better before the government and libs (but i digress) got involved.

I'm upper 40's, the first college class I took was macroeconomics, it was dumbed down to the middle school level ( from when I went to middle school at least).
Combine the dumbing down of public school and government cash infusion in to the mix and ta-da! We have our current situation.

[bersaguy]

I had every opportunity there was to go to college. Parents and Grand parents both offered to pay to put me through school but I was not one that really liked school to begin with but made the most out of it with a B average grade level. Back then there were many kids going to college to avoid the draft and Vietnam. My Mother begged me to go to college to avoid the draft but my Father told me to make my own decisions. I went into the Navy, served 5 years for my country and came home. Entered a trade school for Auto Mechanics, Graduated, opened my own business which I passed down to my son when I retired. He down sized because finding good help was almost impossible but is still in business on a smaller scale. With that said!!!

 

I have seen news networks do interviews with college students a lot this election year and some of them have been in school 2 or more years and the reporter will ask them what is their major and they come off the wall with something I have no clue what it would be as an occupation. Then the reporter moves to politics and there are people with 2 or more years of college that cannot even tell you who the President is or who is even running for the White House in 2016 and some don't even know it's an election year. To me that is scary!!!!!! Do these people live in a bubble of stupidity when not in a classroom?...................jmho

[MacGyver]

One thing we didn't seem to touch on here is the fact education (period) was better before the government and libs (but i digress) got involved.

I'm upper 40's, the first college class I took was macroeconomics, it was dumbed down to the middle school level ( from when I went to middle school at least).
Combine the dumbing down of public school and government cash infusion in to the mix and ta-da! We have our current situation.

 

At least at the university level, they've always been pretty "socially progressive" historically.  It's probably simply a product of people getting paid to sit around and think vs. actually needing to do something that actually provides tangible value right now.  

[E4 No More]

I had every opportunity there was to go to college. Parents and Grand parents both offered to pay to put me through school but I was not one that really liked school to begin with but made the most out of it with a B average grade level. Back then there were many kids going to college to avoid the draft and Vietnam. My Mother begged me to go to college to avoid the draft but my Father told me to make my own decisions. I went into the Navy, served 5 years for my country and came home. Entered a trade school for Auto Mechanics, Graduated, opened my own business which I passed down to my son when I retired. He down sized because finding good help was almost impossible but is still in business on a smaller scale. With that said!!!

 

I have seen news networks do interviews with college students a lot this election year and some of them have been in school 2 or more years and the reporter will ask them what is their major and they come off the wall with something I have no clue what it would be as an occupation. Then the reporter moves to politics and there are people with 2 or more years of college that cannot even tell you who the President is or who is even running for the White House in 2016 and some don't even know it's an election year. To me that is scary!!!!!! Do these people live in a bubble of stupidity when not in a classroom?...................jmho

Yet I was in college in my 30's and could tell you exactly who was president. What's your point?

 

Before I had college, I learned in the Marine Corps while dealing with many college educated people, (both officers and enlisted), that college doesn't make the person; it can only improve the person. As I barely graduated high school because I didn't give a crap back then, I spent a lot of my day correcting the writings of college educated people.

Edited February 18, 2016 by SWJewellTN

[crossfire]

I had every opportunity there was to go to college. Parents and Grand parents both offered to pay to put me through school but I was not one that really liked school to begin with but made the most out of it with a B average grade level. Back then there were many kids going to college to avoid the draft and Vietnam. My Mother begged me to go to college to avoid the draft but my Father told me to make my own decisions. I went into the Navy, served 5 years for my country and came home. Entered a trade school for Auto Mechanics, Graduated, opened my own business which I passed down to my son when I retired. He down sized because finding good help was almost impossible but is still in business on a smaller scale. With that said!!!

 

 

So you went to the same school I did. U. of Hard Knocks

[MacGyver]

Yet I was in college in my 30's and could tell you exactly who was president. What's your point?

 

Before I had college, I learned in the Marine Corps while dealing with many college educated people, (both officers and enlisted), that college doesn't make the person; it can only improve the person. As I barely graduated high school because I didn't give a crap back then, I spent a lot of my day correcting the writings of college educated people.

 

You raise another point that so many of our students today would be wise to consider - that is putting a few years of actual work in between high school and college.  The focus that provides - sometimes into what you would like to do, and more often what you positively DO NOT want to do is so valuable.

[56FordGuy]

You raise another point that so many of our students today would be wise to consider - that is putting a few years of actual work in between high school and college. The focus that provides - sometimes into what you would like to do, and more often what you positively DO NOT want to do is so valuable.

I spent a year working in a warehouse between high school and tech school. It was an extremely valuable year.

[gjohnsoniv]

You raise another point that so many of our students today would be wise to consider - that is putting a few years of actual work in between high school and college. The focus that provides - sometimes into what you would like to do, and more often what you positively DO NOT want to do is so valuable.

That's somewhat close to what I've been doing the past couple years putting my self through engineering school. Been in several jobs that have allowed me to gain a whole lot of experience and a gain a whole lot of hands on experience. It has definitely shown me what I don't want to do. Edited February 18, 2016 by gjohnsoniv

[Caster]

Dang right Mac.  If I could like that post more than once, I would.  

 

I worked a few little piddly jobs after high school before I started working in a machine shop which became my career for a long time.  It was invaluable.  I had never dealt with people other than my dishwashing job I had in high school.  Never dealt with diversity or different cultures.  Never dealt with different age groups in a work environment.  It did MUCH to prepare me, even though $7.50-$8.00 hr sucked, it was well worth it.  

[Lumber_Jack]

You raise another point that so many of our students today would be wise to consider - that is putting a few years of actual work in between high school and college. The focus that provides - sometimes into what you would like to do, and more often what you positively DO NOT want to do is so valuable.

Man you are right on. I have told people for years, I was not ready for college and I paid for it both monetarily and with time. I never finished engineering school, not because I wasn't good enough, I just was too immature to turn down the beer and partying. Now I'm fortunate to be a forester and love my job but I could have benefitted from a couple years of hard labor. Edited February 18, 2016 by Lumber_Jack

[Sam1]

Man you are right on. I have told people for years, I was not ready for college and I paid for it both monetarily and with time. I never finished engineering school, not because I wasn't good enough, I just was too immature to turn down the beer and partying. Now I'm fortunate to be a forester and love my job but I could have benefitted from a couple years of hard labor.

Are you saying as a forester you lead nothing but a straight life? If so, this is another situation we can fix with a TGO meet and free booze.

It's time [for us] to enjoy the fruits of your hard labor.

[Lumber_Jack]

Are you saying as a forester you lead nothing but a straight life? If so, this is another situation we can fix with a TGO meet and free booze.

It's time [for us] to enjoy the fruits of your hard labor.

Haha, definitely not. It just took several years to learn how to balance work and play. At 18 I thought I could drink til 4am and still make it to 8am class.

[KahrMan]

Haha, definitely not. It just took several years to learn how to balance work and play. At 18 I thought I could drink til 4am and still make it to 8am class.

 

 

You couldn't?  Amateur.

[monkeylizard]

By his second year he figured out he should drink until 8am and go to a 4pm class

[Sam1]

By his second year he figured out he should drink until 8am and go to a 4pm class

 

Dumb freshman.

[MacGyver]

By his second year he figured out he should drink until 8am and go to a 4pm class

 

That exactly the reason they schedule all of those engineering classes at 0800.

[peejman]

That exactly the reason they schedule all of those engineering classes at 0800.

Exactly. It's easier when you're still drunk from the night before. The 11am classes were the tough ones.

[Murgatroy]

I see a lot of strong opinions in this thread. That is refreshing, but it also a bit short sighted and naive. 

 

We are not cookies cut with the same shape.

 

That is what makes us fun.

 

That also doesn't make you wrong. Or right.

 

I graduated from high school by the skin of my teeth and was kicked out in the world. It beat my ass. I have held a full time job since I was on my own at 17. I was a guest of a state system that could care less and put me though a half baked 'independent living center.' I was on the streets with no skills and no help. I worked. I worked. I worked.

 

When I was 22 I enrolled in school and got saddled with a fair amount of student debt. It was my only option, how could I afford to eat and live, and pay for school. I worked two jobs and went to school full time. A couple of years later I got a piece of paper that meant crap, and honestly I have done nothing with it. It was all because I thought the only way to get ahead was to get a college degree. I make a good living, by working hard, and experience has done more for me than my education.

 

I pay my student loans. My education is something I am proud of. I carried a 3.75/4.0 GPA through the whole thing. 

 

I am however teaching my daughter that life is better to find what you love, then find a way to make a good living doing it. I think way to much of the world is focused on money, and having more than the neighbors. I know that part of what motivates me is to ensure that my daughter never, NEVER, has to experience the life I did. 

 

So while it is really easy to sit in your easy, or uneasy chair and judge everyone else based on their choices that differ from yours, remember that you haven't been presented the same choices to make with the same tools. I know that now in my life, I would make a whole lot of choices a lot differently, but I also know that I would still make a lot of them just as badly. And that is with all of the information that might not have been available ten, twenty or thirty years ago when I made them.

 

But I do think that today's enforced idea that a degree is required is highly flawed. And a lot of that comes from the fact that I have spent a large part of my post college career in specialized 'skilled trades.' It is also because at the end of the day, learning how to sit in an office and type on a computer isn't going to help you a bit when your car breaks down, or your pipes burst or a tree falls in your yard. Life experience can. 

 

For the record I went to school for electrical engineering. And I sit behind a desk typing on a computer and telling people what to do. I can turn a wrench and run a chainsaw too.

[A.J. Holst]

if the loan has been turned over to a collector the .gov is not interested in your problems any longer. They don't own it.

 

When I did private student loan lending way back in the late 80s, .gov "guaranteed" the loan in the event of default and we performed proper due diligence on the servicing side.

 

.gov took the loan, attempted to collect, when it was deemed uncollectible, it was sold to collection agencies for pennies on the dollar to recover a portion of the loss.

 

I am pretty sure the same thing happens today with the exception of .gov is in the direct origination business big time.

 

.gov is certainly going to exercise it's police power today (wage garnishment / refund seizure) - if they deem you ain't got nothing to get via payroll deduct, then they'll flip you to a third-party agency.

 

Private originators are border line worse than predatory credit card lenders. Statements set quarterly with little baby minimum due (interest-only) payments...it's like renting your education forever...

 

On a hardship, arrange for $5 - $10 / month and try to negotiate for zero interest, I'd bet they'd agree to a consistent payment plan even for 172 years over ZERO. Get back on your feet, got a few hundred bucks, offer them a settlement.

 

If we take the estimated outstanding student loan debt of $1 Trillion http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/student-debt-swells-federal-loans-now-top-a-trillion/ and stretch it out over 360 payments and assume a modest 4% interest rate, the monthly payments are only $4,774,152,954.65 (yes that is 4 Billion)

 

Do the debt holders or will the debt holders ever have that kind of earning capacity?

 

Here's a genius revelation from the above referenced CFPB report

 

Interestingly, the analysis reveals that student loan borrowers are now less likely to have mortgage debt and auto debt than those without student loans, reversing a longstanding trend. This is consistent with tabulations of the Federal Reserve Board’s triennial Survey of Consumer Finance, which show increases in the portion of younger households with outstanding student loan debt and decreases in the portion of younger households with outstanding mortgage and auto debt.

 

If you got a truck load of student loan debt, you won't QUALIFY for a mortgage or auto loan due to your debt ratio or DTI (outgo divided by income - in the lending world - debt reported on your credit bureau is your outgo) , 50% or less is a good rule of thumb, 40% from a lender's perspective is even better.

 

As with most things, we perverted what a student loan was for. It stopped being about education, room, books and board; rather many chose to live off student loans in lieu of working, chose to travel, join clubs and party like rock stars to get the full college experience.

[TripleGGG]

[btq96r]

So, being a 30something guy in college, I get to see this problem from a plethora of angles.  From my admittedly narrow exposure at MTUS, one thing I rarely see is a college student without at least one part time job.  Quite frankly, the only non-working students I can think of at the moment are athletes on scholarship, though I'm sure someone I've interacted with is living the good life on the dole from their parents.  

 

Hell, I'm working with three sorority girls, who would under first glance be the types you would roll your eyes at, because when it comes to politics they talk about birth control, the right to choose, and don't dismiss Bernie Sanders ideas as crazy.  But I'll be damned if they aren't working and earning their keep.  The job I share with them is their 2nd job of the day, and their first one has them on site at work at 5:30am on some days.  Four nights a week, they work with me and the student athletes we mentor, sometimes not clocking out until after 10pm at night.  In between all that, they are in class full time, with all the academic responsibilities that brings with it.  So, yeah, they're working and getting that kick in the junk of life experience for $9/hr, all the while being forced to finance their way through school with help from family and loans.

 

Guess the point is that life experience gained through work, and college attendance don't have to be mutually exclusive. 

[Sam1]

 

 

If we take the estimated outstanding student loan debt of $1 Trillion http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/student-debt-swells-federal-loans-now-top-a-trillion/ and stretch it out over 360 payments and assume a modest 4% interest rate, the monthly payments are only $4,774,152,954.65 (yes that is 4 Billion)

 

My guess is that we could pay that no problem, the issue is that people paying bills believe that it is more important to have a $700 iphone and $150/monthly plan along with other things rather than to pay a student loan off.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Sam1

[runco]

First time reading through this thread.  Wow!

 

I admit I got it wrong, I paid for my college using credit cards, but managed to pay it off in full before graduation by working my tail off at jobs.  Did I miss something?  Oh by the way, I had to choose a college that met my wallet criteria at the time, ETSU.  Would have liked to went to UT, but a certain girl I chased and lower tuition at ETSU over-ruled UT.  Sorry I didn't follow the trend. 

 

But seriously, I don't know why anyone would be in the hole so far that they can't breath when they graduate.  I just don't get that.  Don't sound like they are educated to me.  As far as the moral and legal thing, everyone gets that, they just choose to ignore, because they can and society is allowing it.  The decay of our society is in free fall.

[DaveTN]

Wow, tough crowd.

Best I can tell no one is being arrested for not paying students loans. A guy was arrested for failure to appear in court. It’s the same thing if you don’t pay a speeding ticket or go to court. The Judges issues a bench warrant and the next time you are stopped you go to jail. Are you in jail for a speeding ticket? No, you are in jail for contempt of court.

Life’s tough; wear a helmet.