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Wow, this pretty quickly went from a pretty decent discussion about general purpose rifles into gun store commando prattle.   I'm looking for a 13 shot .45ACP pistol that weighs less than 12 ounces, fits in a pants pocket, and has soft recoil and a really good trigger.  Oh, I'm not looking to spend more than about $250...   :squint:

Wait until they hear about the ultra-flammable untraceable arson fluid that you can literally buy by the gallon at nearly every corner in your town... without even giving your name!!!      :rofl:

Absolutely a case of fishing for a cop. The key part of the equation y'all are missing is that it is entirely up to the cop whether or not he gets hooked. If the cop acts within the limits and scope of his duties everyone goes on their way and the douche is just a douche. If the officer oversteps his limits, he gets himself into trouble or the agency on the hook for a payout and the douche gets the smug satisfaction of being right, and possibly wealthier. The lesson to takeaway from this is for cops to act within their limits. Yes, they have a difficult job. I don't think anyone denies that. It is a difficult job on purpose.

Kyle, it seems your request for suggestions has turned into an argument to convince others of your views. There are a lot of great options out there that fit your need for an inexpensive SHTF rifle. If you truly want to hear the other's opinions you might do better just taking in what they are suggesting instead of attempting to tear them down.    I have run across a lot of knowledgeable guys on the forums here at TGO. Whether it be an AR platform, levergun, M1, bolt action, etc I am sure many can speak from experience about firearms they either currently own or have owned in the past, or that they may have used during military service or on the job as an leo. To effectively make use of this vast knowledge one may have to set aside his own views for a minute and consider what is being said. "Wisdom is the reward you get for a lifetime of listening when you'd have preferred to talk." Doug Larson.   Good luck with your quest for a .308 SHTF rifle.

Another case of refusing to cooperate and giving the Officers a rash of crap! Answer the questions and get on with your life. Same old crap, Cop Fishing!   DaveS

pretty much all true.  Of course make no mention of the party that initiated the loss of those freedoms, that might not fit in here.

I'll be avoiding shopping in stores like the plague. A few years ago i got my hands on a discounted GPS. I was all happy about it until i saw the line.... then i realized i'd rather pay $30 just to avoid standing in that line for 4 hours.   Online shopping for me only!

Wo. No wonder I can't get any work done.

This thread reminds me of the saying about cars. Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick two because you cant have all three. You can have all the characteristics you want for a rifle but it wont be cheap. Or you can compromise on something else. If you could have it all, everybody would have it. Also, Mad Max was a movie not real life or an accurate look into the future.

Well, That went well, didn't it?

So here is the update.  I had some email communication with a fellow in Spike's customer service department.  After a couple of delays, he sent me a return label and RMA number.  I sent the complete upper with BCG, copies of email correspondence including that associated with the previous RMA, photos of the malfunction posted here, and explanation of what I had tried to fix the problem including types of mags, ammo, etc.  Two days later, I received an email from the customer service rep stating that he hand-carried the upper to their armorer who, upon reading the correspondence, built a complete new upper for me and installed my LWRC quad-rail on the new upper.  I received the shipment today and it included 7 fired casings that do not have the scratches/gouges on them like the ones I got in the old upper receiver.  I asked if they knew what the problem was, they said they didn't bother to do any sort of diagnostics.  I am very confident that the feed ramps on the other barrel extension were not machined properly because these look much more flared than on the previous upper.  They also tossed in a couple of decals and a American flag velcro patch, which was nice.  The only problem is that they didn't swap out the engraved dust cover I had on the previous upper, but that is a very minor problem and I'll take credit for that because I didn't specify it was installed on the upper I returned.  Hopefully I'll be able take it out and shoot it this weekend to confirm it works properly.   I'm glad to see that Spike's has finally tried to make things right.  I'll give a range report soon.

You touch that FAL off inside a house and you won't be hearing squat either.

  Dave, I think that is a slippery slope your traveling down with the recorder.  Not tremendously different from the leftest argument that carrying a gun means your seeking confrontation.  Personally i don't see the need for me to carry a recorder, but i can understand why some feel that it is in there best interest to record conversations with LE.   I wish i could say that there are no dishonest police officers, but we both know that that is not the case.  Additionally it assists in preventing the he said she said that can come from encounters with non LE, like the security guard in this case.  Again, i agree that i dont find it personally necessary, but it is not a guaranteed indicator that someone is seeking confrontation either.

Situational awareness. And they better hope they succeed. Sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

Bury it, stuff it in a yard bag and trash it, burn it, toss it in a lake, grind it up and compost it, .....

After hearing his story and seeing the subsequent outcome, I've considered getting a recorder.  Not because of how I carry (which is 99% of the time concealed), but because it seems like this would be the only way to prove your side of the story in any situation  involving an arrest, detention, etc.  You shouldn't have to prove your side, but that's what it seems like sometimes.  (Like those numerous people who had large amounts of cash confiscated by Tennessee cops, and then had to prove they weren't drug dealers).    I have not gone out and bought a recorder, but I have put a recorder widget in an easy to locate spot on my phone.  I don't keep it on, but I have decided that any interaction with a representative of the government will be recorded.  Its sad, but I have heard numerous instances where the citizen's word was given less credence than the government official.   I'm not looking to sue anyone, I just want to protect myself.     And all the audio is posted on the first page of this thread:  http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/showthread.php?t=237726

I feel life my life is scripted by Rod Serling everytime I read crap like this.

Then in her golden years, you can just tell her you got cable for her and she's watching Animal Planet.  :)

Because it's in the 5th Amendment, and back when they started blocking felon's rights there were very few felony's.  You had to do something bad, and you often spent your entire life in prison....  Rape, Murder, Armed robbery...  all of which were life without parole or death sentences back in the day.   I keep asking the question, if we don't trust them enough to own a firearm, why on earth are they loose on the streets with us?  

  When are they gonna regulate stupid? It's a helluva lot more dangerous than a box of Tannerite.

she broke up the band

Scavengers probably scattered the carcas around. There's probably another pile of bones nearby. Super nice find!

Not going to be much time at that distance. I would think step 1 is to have adequate medical supplies on hand and make sure that at least one or two people in the office are trained in first aid. This is probably a good idea in any event. I like the ideas for barriers. I'm sure someone probably makes desks with flip-up ones or maybe a desk pad with a sheet of steel embedded. As to a weapon, I'm not sure. On you person seems likely the best bet. It increases access time but it will always be with you. Say if you were in the bathroom or elsewhere in the building and the shooting started... Some of this will be dependent on the layout of your offices and other factors. Of course, nobody says you have to have just one. Peejman's suggestion of an ejector seat is clearly ridiculous. A button under the desk that opens a trapdoor to a pit of sharks is a much better idea.

If you already know so much, why are you asking for suggestions? $300 probably won't get you a reliable rifle with the characteristics you've named. You might consider saving some more money and getting a Springfield M1a or a Steyr Scout rifle. Buy all the ammo you think you need to single handedly whip whatever army or mob you are planning for. I'm not sure where you plan to "scrounge for ammo" but most people I know who own it wouldn't be very receptive to your idea.   I'm always entertained by the new guys who know more than the rest of us. How old are you? Late teens I'm guessing.

I guess it worked out for him, huh? It seems like here lately that that's a little game everyone wants to play. Refuse to show ID, refuse to answer LEO's questions and start the cameras rolling! Some folks think they'll just drop dead if they had a good encounter with LE. And at the same time, cry that their rights are being violated if the LEO was video taping them for his protection. What's good for one is good for the other right? I just don't agree with all this damn recording of LEO's. Find another hobby like recording wildlife or something.   DaveS

If it were me, I'd look at these two as well as the 686:   Smith Model 66 Smith Model 19

I am sorry to say that I have no patch , but I commend you gentlemen for your service ; especially today.

If you are an ultra-feminist or sensitive to foul language, do NOT watch this video. If you can't stand Yoko Ono as much as I can't, this could be the best video of all time.   [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaCKKHcpf0w[/media]

Look, a package! What's inside? Trash Bags! Woot! oh wait, there's stuff in them! Two 5.11 watch caps (awesome, because I needed a new winter hat, and it was cold today!) a sweet patch that I've already given to a friend of mine who is a Metro Officer, and has been gearing up for deployment to Afghanistan, and a 5.11 double mag pouch that attaches to MOLLE. All in all, not bad. Would I have bought the hats? Probably not, but they're useful. I was going to get a patch for my buddy anyway, so that's perfect, and a better patch than I probably would have bought him. The hats also have a bonus, they're reversible with loop backing opposite the 5.11 logo, I'll stick a patch on one, probably give the other to another friend of mine who is helping me with a small welding project.

It would have been racist to do otherwise, then the media would have been calling it a justified attack.

I didn't earn these myself but I'm mighty proud of them because they were taken from their own uniforms and handed to me by the soldiers themselves. A Band I was in was asked to be a guest of the Base Commander at Tyndall AFB to play for the troops and get a personal tour of the base. We were given a demonstration of the F-22 Raptor(which was freakin' amazing) and got to fly the F-15 Simulator, which was a blast! and also one of the pilots had the same Nickname as me "Harpo" :usa:

racist -> self reliant -> gun owner ->conservative -> republican -> racist   Circular logic or circle jerk? 

Would like to say "thanks" to each and every one who has served or is serving.   Had our Veteran's Day Parade on Sunday.  Was very disappointed at the low turnout, especially considering that we had two WW II vets in attendance; based on their age, this just might be the last one that they are able to attend.  Noticed a Korean vet was missing this time -- but others, all the way up through the current Middle-East Wars, were there and honored.   I did take the grands, just so that they could meet these heroes and hear a little of their experiences.  Might just be the most important thing I've ever taken them to !!

Well if its coming from the ladies.... .... ..

It's one thing to carry with confidence and not be concerned with someone noticing in passing. But it's definitely another to purposefully advertise, looking for a reaction. That gives us all a bad name and just furthers the public disdain and distrust for HCP carriers. If someone just happens to notice that I'm carrying, I would much rather have them see me as being a positive, responsible citizen and earn their acceptance and respect. It's much easier to make a bad impression. It only takes one bad apple and the impression lasts a lot longer.

And those that do, always have a recording device going because they want a confrontation. And that's all they do it for is for 10 minutes of fame on you tube! In my opinion, if you carry a shotgun or AR to a coffee shop, be ready for the cops!   DaveS

I just confirmed with TWRA that being bare & stripped as it was it's free for the taking. If it was fresh it may have required a salvage tag? I'm not a hunter so I'm not familiar with all the regs. Here's a couple of pics of what I found. The top is what I looked down and saw as we were hiking through the woods.

^^^^^ That about covers it! :) Good job!

Given that you'll be seated, the shoulder holster seems like the best option.  Just be careful with muzzle discipline, and practice drawing and re-holstering a lot.    Be very thoughtful about where and how you sit in relation to the client.    I like the ballistic vest inside a briefcase idea.   How about an ejector seat for you clients?

  Never even near one, apparently. :)   - OS

The caller apparently didn't pass math class.

Shot a big doe today. It was good to let the smoke pole loose lol.

No way a bobby would be allowed to have that knife.   - OS

That's really, um...well, it's, you know, um....   Maybe make it about 3 times bigger, line with Kevlar, and wear around neck as breastplate? ;)   - OS

  Yeah, not very "authentic" but handy.   If you do, I highly advise spending the not very much extra to get the convertible edition, so you can shoot 9mm too. Very nifty indeed. Only in blued finish though, seems.   - OS

Well, the continuing unrealistic gun glitches aside, thought it was a solid episode. Rather despairing, as they lose so many, things falling apart, and the Guv shows when they're at their weakest, etc.   Was nice to see that what's his name on Talking Dead reversed his comment about antibiotics needed for viruses from last show.   Also, first dogs I believe I've seen in whole show, at first of segment, eating the still moving zed? Pretty striking image.   - OS

Part of me still says that carrying a recorder around everywhere I go is paranoid behavior at the least and surreptitious at the most. If one only carries a recorder when they OC, it still seems mostly surreptitious to me. I've never wanted/needed to OC bad enough to "risk" winding up in a situation like this. My personal choice is to carry concealed and avoid the hassle. In all fairness, though, there are those that feel like carrying a gun at all "risks" winding up in a situation of some kind. Likewise, these types think carrying a gun for protection is paranoid too. Either way, the attitude I choose to display to the officer seems to me like it's going to have the most effect on how the confrontation goes. Right or wrong being nice instead of insisting on being right is good karma and goes a long way. I'll choose not being a test case, not being hassled, and not making the news over being right 9 times out of 10. YMMV

The ones I bought were labelled. I looked up what it was and it seems safe enough. I still need to pressure wash them out and make a stand for them. Hopefully the apocalypse will wait a month or two.

I don't get it. Are you saying it doesn't lock back on last round? Or when successfully locked back, there's not physically enough space for the round to go up in front of and into bolt face to chamber, in other words can only be loaded from a closed bolt? If the second, that would be an engineering fail of rather spectacular proportions seems? - OS

If you want to see him go nuts; send him a link to this thread.