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I'm against red flag laws on principal. They tend to supersede due process, to say nothing of actual investigatory work (though I acknowledge resource limitations in that area compared to the problem). It won't take long before they tie some connection to medical databases, especially the VA. At that point, any veteran who had combat action, and/or claims PTSD is on "the list". No thanks.

So basically if anyone knows you have firearms and they want to cause you lots of misery and money all they need do is call 911. My neighbor Bob pointed a gun at my child, or he threatened to shoot my dog because he doesn't like poodles, or any of 1,000,000 other crappy lies to get poor ole Bob thrown in the pokey and his nice collection of guns confiscated. Sounds a whole lot like some crazy nutcase named Hitler, Stalin to name but a few. Rule # 1 live in the country, way out in the country where your neighbor can just barely hear you shoot a gun, Rule # 2 have a big steel gate and a lot of not so nice German Shepherds and a clear view of the gate at about 600 yds. Put up a sign, turn around and leave or I have to fire up the backhoe, Again!!

Ok...this comment is a bit out of place here. At least in the specific topic I want to address. One of my, and other's, fear is of the disgruntled neighbor, wife, or other family member. A single bit of hate, and I think that will be the driving force more than fear; will likely be the cause of a confiscation of weapons under the "RED FLAG" laws. For me personally, it's the irate neighbor that causes me concern. We are the lone conservative in our immediate neighborhood. Most are moderate and quiet in their comments, but several are, by my standards anyway, wildly left-leaning and seem to salivate at the thought of taking any action against anyone disagreeing with their own ideology. We have on this street MADD, Moms Demand Action, LBGQT supporters, vehement Bernie supporters, and a few who still scream that Hillary was robbed. We/I became friendly with a couple of them after moving in, and I even took one shooting with me. That didn't seem to make him any more likeable, nor has he ever asked to go again. His FB postings are full of Trump hate and all that goes with it. I have chosen to keep all but a passing "Hello" distance from him. So this guy reaches out and tells LEO that he fears that a neighbor has weapons and might be unstable. Where does that leave me/us? Red Flag laws are a quagmire. Some good from them, but the potential for massive misuse is there. And that worries me.

Wife can sell them while he’s away. I don’t see confiscation of a legal item being a police officer’s burden. Would you take all his money as well so he can’t buy a gun?

This and NO! Our justice system needs a serous overhaul If one isn’t to be trusted with firearms, one should not be free to roam in public, and damned sure shouldn’t be allowed to vote..

Yeah, it seems to me that the whole purpose of a Red Flag Law is to circumvent due process and individual rights.

Fixed that one for you.

Yes! If that's how you choose to see it. Or, I view it as the following. Is death by firearm somehow worse or more tragic than any other death? In my opinion, it falls into the narrative of "gun violence" as if somehow the victims of murder by firearm are somehow worse off than any other form. I thought about your two scenarios a lot last night. I came up with a simpler answer. As a cop, I would do whatever I would do in those situations if firearms were not present. In other words, what would you do in those situations if the two husbands didn't own guns? As a cop, would you guilt yourself for removing all firearms from the location and then finding out the next day that the husband killed his wife with a butcher knife or strangled her with his belt? Because if all you do is remove the firearms and nothing else, he can still kill her.

If it turned into a left vs right event, it would be a mass shooting, many, many mass shootings. I can't fathom having to pull the trigger on a fellow American but will defend what I swore to defend.

DING, DING, DING we have a winner!

I just wanted to pop up a thread about a very positive experience I had at Shoot Point Blank indoor range in Knoxville yesterday. I also didn't want to drift a thread started by @Ronald_55 and that @peejman and others had posted in. I've been shooting there (Shoot Point Blank) for several months. I went the first time based on a coupon I received in the mail for a free 1/2 hour range session. I became a member as they offer a 50% discount for prior military service. That, and the fact it's only 5 miles from my front door made it a no-brainer. The facility is extremely well stocked, the staff are courteous, and professional. The ranges are safe, RSO's sharp, polite, knowledgeable, and professional. The range is well ventilated and well lighted. With my membership I can shoot any gun they have for sale (Clarification: you can fire 5 rounds in a "test drive", or you can choose any gun from their Rental section to shoot). I just need to purchase ammo from them to shoot in their gun. Fair enough. You can shoot long guns as well as handguns there. As a member I am eligible for one free transfer per month and one free class they offer per month, and my range time is unlimited. So, I was already very happy about my membership there. I recently picked up a .22 LCR and just last week replaced the front sight with an XS Orange Dot sight. My wife liked the looks of it and wanted to go shoot it with me yesterday. Holy Moly...did you read that? My wife wanted to go shoot with me! I jumped at that opportunity as it's been several years since she asked, and I learned loooong ago not to be pushy about such a subject. I've been married 31 years and plan to continue along that path! So she tried my .22 LCR (heavy trigger, but she wanted to try). She also shot a .38 S&W and .38 LCR. The double action trigger pull is simply too much for her. We went out to the desk and spoke with the saleslady. My wife handled several handguns, they not only allowed, but suggested she dryfire them. We checked out a S&W 380 EZ because it fit her well (as I already mentioned, no charge as I'm a member) and paid for a box of their ammo (Magtech). My wife shot all but one magful, which she graciously allowed me to shoot LOL. She loved the EZ 380. We bought her one then and there. Not the one she shot, but a new one that has a thumb safety because she liked that aspect. Excellent customer service all the way around imho. Now I gotta start handloading .380 again. I ordered her some practice ammo and a couple of extra mags from CDNN when we got home. Life is good! Happy wife, Happy life as they say. I just wanted to let folks know that there does exist quality facilities that do promote positive customer service and shooting experiences. I have no business affiliation with Point Blank, I'm just a very satisfied customer.

Allowing any governing body, to take anything (within reason) from someone just because a 3rd party claims they've been threatened, or they "feel" they may be threatened is just pure insane. Its as stupid as an alleged DV victim moving back in with the bad husband/bf/etc....Red Flag is a means to the end, and should be fought at all cost. WE don't purposely disable bad drivers cars, and we allow those convicted repeatedly of dui, to drive, AGAIN, This red flag crap wont end well.....

I'm really fed up with the NRA. their current mess and all their compromise crap. I'll stay a member but don't give them anything extra. Long time member of GOA. They don't compromise and don't back away from a fight. They're the pit bulls in the gun rights world. They I contribute some extra money to. I honestly don't know why I never joined SAF? I need to correct that mistake.

John wells did mine, he's a member here. It depends on several different things but the main reason for me to go with a trust was so I could add family members.

It wouldn't provoke me any more than asking the police haul them off. Now I'm looking at this from a different perspective than most. A guy has a shotgun and a pistol: that's no big issue to haul off. I cringe at the thought of my collection that has taken a lifetime to amass being tossed into a dump truck or Uhaul truck like luggage at the airport.

Lifetime means about as much as it does withe NRA, save for the tiered system they have set up. I became a lifetime member of SAF back in 2012 or 2013, and to this day I still get solicitations for money. That said, they're doing important work by fighting legal cases that result in reverberating precedent. Getting the City of Chicago to pay for legal fees related to McDonald was a particularly awesome moment. Having a six figure check to cash with Rahm Emanuel's signature as mayor made a lot of happy people that day.

Red Flag laws have more potential of abuse than actually doing any good IMHO. There are already laws on the books which can apply, is it not illegal to threaten bodily harm, is trespassing not illegal, are not orders of protection not available? The coming to someones house with no prior notice and kicking the door down has more potential for deadly consequences than sending a certified letter or peacefully knocking on the door to serve a notice to appear.

It is shown that a guy with a knife can close in on, and score a hit on a guy with a gun if within 21 or greater feet if the gunman is not paying attention.

That was waaaaay back in February; he might not remember saying that. As a lot of things he says are: it was a stupid thing to say. Taking the guns is part of due process; if you have due process.

I'm a life member of the NRA, and a relatively new member of GOA, I've seen more email traffic from GOA challenging this law or that law in that short time than I've seen from the NRA in quite some years. I still give to the NRA-ILA, their lobbying arm, but more goes to GOA.

A re-worked Howa Mini 1500 or CZ 527. @E4 No More, that's a nice rifle. I'm looking forward to a range report.

I don't feel that felons with violent criminal pasts should get their 2A rights back. I've seen way too many felons that are repeat offenders that go around killing again, sometimes for a second time. Our court system and penal institutions are just not very good at putting, and keeping people in prison. Sure, some get sentenced for a bunch of years, but released in 2 for "good" behaviour, murderers in some cases, out for "good" behaviour. If I had better trust in them I may agree, but as it stands, that is a firm no. Now, the non violent ones, yea sure give them a trial and let the judge decide on a case by case basis if they should get them back. that way the ones that have picked up violent tendencies in jail don't fall through the cracks.

I know this is not a new subject, but seeing the amount of public outrage over the recent mass shootings again has me wondering why the general population doesn't get outraged to the same degree by the number of drunk driving deaths each year? I did a quick look at some numbers in order to compare the two. 2006 to 2017 = 1,358 mass shooting deaths 2006 to 2017 = 131,586 drunk driving deaths That's 95 times as many deaths during the same period caused by alcohol, yet where's the outrage? I know the politicians have an agenda in order to push for gun control in connection with the mass shootings, but I guess people don't REALLY care about people getting killed, it's just an agenda for them as well. I guess getting drunk and driving is socially acceptable, and if some people get killed, oh well...

People killed by drunk drivers are just as dead as people that are killed by being shot. I had to deal with drunk drivers for 40 years in the ER and so many times they were belligerent and hateful to deal with, even when they had killed someone. They know they should not drive but do it anyway. Just as a shooter knows he shouldn't do it but does anyway.

Linda Cristal - High Chaparral?

Welcome .

I went and got a membership today. You can shoot any of their rental guns available. Not new guns off the shelf. But they had a huge rental section of handguns and Rifles.

As a former LEO I can assure you that she has not - particularly when she finds out that the police can't hold him.

A woman that has involved LEO has overcome that particular fear. She does have the option of putting them into storage somewhere, or a family member's, or friend's house.

Welcome!

It should worry you. And you should know what the Red Flag laws in your state are. Do you know? Do any of you know? I don’t know and I have asked several times on this forum without a response from anyone in law enforcement or any laws quoted. My guess is from what I’ve seen posted on the internet that they can take your guns, and have you committed pretty easily; I don’t think there are many rules in places for you getting your weapons back. Hence…no due process. My support is for doing away with this “do whatever you like” process and have a specifically called out set of rules and regulations of due process. Is your neighbor calling the Police accusing you of a crime? Or just thinks you are nuts? The Officer sent out may knock on your door and hear what you have to say, or he may not. Anyone can accuse you of a crime. If there is probable cause to believe the “victim” the Officer will arrest you or use his discretion and not arrest you. If after talking to you, the Officer decides no crime has been committed; he will leave. If after reading you your rights (the first indicator you are the suspect of a crime) and you talk to him he may either arrest you or believe you and not arrest you. If you invoke your right to remain silent he will move forward with whatever information he has. Would Red Flag laws and Domestic Violence laws be used against innocent people in family situations and Divorces? Of course, everyday would be my guess. If you expect that is going to happen you better have a plan to cover your butt; or you will likely be in jail. Sorry, but you married her; if you can’t handle your personal life that’s what happens. Be ready to take responsibility for your actions. Or…Life’s not fair; wear a helmet. That's not Directed at you Hipower; just a general statement.

Red Flag laws will be abused. One needs to look no further than the way that restraining orders are abused in divorce proceedings to see what the future holds.

Exactly!

Thought I would add this link to make it easier for folks to learn more about GOA. https://gunowners.org/

Most 7-11s I have been in barely have 21 feet of room in any direction.

Better an AK/AR than a C-4 belt. You can stop 1 but not much chance of stopping the other if a person is determind to do a mass murder and has no plans to live through it!!! If one of the officers did shoot and hit a bystander, if he had not been firing at the bad guy chances are the bystander would have been killed by the shooter anyway...........JMHO

The fact is, for the average gun owner there is really no way to know for sure. Most if not all stripped lowers are sold as other, and not pistol or rifle, so unless the original owner assembled it into a rifle, took and posted pictures of it, with SN showing, then there is no way for the ATF to know either. All my lowers get assembled into pistols first, and documented, just for S&G, even if they will be made into rifles for the remaining time I own them.

I think the reason they posted his tatoo's is because most people will look at a persons body art before they even look at their face. Plus he could shave the beard and maybe add a ball cap but it's not easy doing much with body art to imediately change your appearence. As far as why he is still breathing air. Probably because no one has had him in their sights yet. I may have missed it but is there a reward or bounty on him yet?

Fair enough.

Correct on all points. It's not ready yet and I'm not sure when or if it will be. I am not impressed with the way the software works.

This is a good read from a guy who is not on our side regarding gun control. https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/456557-why-gun-control-is-so-hard-to-enact

And if one can't be rehabilitated don't put them in prison where we have to feed and house them, eliminate the threat. And not by a $40,000 lethal injection, just hang em.

If the threat is real, it doesn't matter if you remove the guns or not if you keep the knives, cars, bats, sticks, nail guns, screwdrivers, blowtorches, hammers, shovels, rakes, axes, etc. around.

If the threat is that real then the person should be removed from the firearms, not the other way around.

If they're competent enough to stand trial, then they're not mentally ill to the point of that being a factor in my mind. Dylan Roof is a good example of someone who may be looked at as "he's crazy", but actually had a cogitative thought process drawn from a lack of moral checks. The premise of your question invalidates it. We don't know how many people who have been denied for background checks, or would if they could have gotten an AR or AK during the ban years meant to kill. I'm sure the number is fractional at best to the overall sample size, but you can't rule it out. Pretty impossible to prove such, really. Make no mistake, I'm not for overhanded government regulation of firearms, but let's be intellectually honest on things...we tend to slide on that when this topic raises temperatures.

Against what? Against what they will do? Against what the procedure you now have is? What are you against? And what would GlockSpock do as a Police Officer when a woman has told you her husband threatened to kill her, there are guns in the house, she does not want them there, and she is in fear for her life and the lives of her children. Go… Second scenario. An elderly woman has told you her elderly husband has been depressed and has threatened to kill himself. There are firearms in the house and she believes he will kill both her and himself. Go… I don’t believe in violent convicted felons owning guns, and I don’t believe in second changes for some violent offenses. I don’t have a problem with restoring the rights of a convicted felon as long as it goes before a Judge, preferable the Judge that heard the case if possible, and as long as the victim is notified and allowed to be heard. Some crimes don’t deserve a second chance; actions have consequences. Some people have trouble understanding that.

If red flag laws are passed, we need something in the law that says any falsely accusing someone out of malice gets a mandatory 1 year in prison.

Early on, i learned the hard way to always buy extra mags when you even think they are proprietary. Later on, those mags are sometimes worth more than the firearm. BTW... i got a return email from FRA and they are not out of business. Admittedly, they were on the ropes for several months but apparently have figured out a plan to rebound. I hope they do well. I like the CSA45. Very accurate and runs clean too.