Leaderboard

Lingo-wise, "quota" is verboten in LE circles.  "Stats driven" or "Standards" is in.  Metro Nashville and other agencies are 'ate up' with it.   Personally, I think it's just a crutch for lazy LE supervisors. Numbers don't tell the whole story.  I know what my people are doing...regardless of what a Stat Sheet says.   For instance, two different 3rd Shift officers...   #1 stays on the main roads and writes 5 tickets during his shift.  Yay. #2 listened in rollcall, heard about a neighborhood getting crushed with vandalisms and car burglaries, and makes it his mission that night (in between the calls-for-service he has to answer). At the end of the shift, he didn't catch anyone (white car with blue lights and POLICE all over it), but there were ZERO vandalisms and car burglaries that night.  Because of this, #2 didn't write any tickets.   Is #1 officer better than #2 officer?  "Stats Driven" says he is. I say no.

As a former Police Officer that has participated in high risk entries without having to dress up in tactical gear; I have always opposed this. The possibility of someone flushing some dope should never been a reason for putting people’s lives at risk.   High risk means just that. Unless someone’s life is in danger there is no reason to kick in a door in the middle of the night; especially when there is any chance you have the wrong house.   If you have to make entry it should be made by Officers in a standard Police uniform that people recognize.   What can you do? You can put this right at the feet on the only people responsible for it, and in every department that is one man or woman; the Chief or Sherriff.   We saw it happen with disastrous results right here in Lebanon a few years back; needless death of an innocent man because the Officers were not prepared or trained for what happened.   This reckless conduct puts the citizens and the Officers at a risk that cannot be justified in everyday use.  

I was better than this punk and I'd bet you were too.   Sure, I did some dumb things when I was 17 but I never did anything even remotely close to Trayvon's actions nor would my parents have tolerated that kind of thuggish behavior.  I don't consider that luck; I consider that the result of having parents rather then sperm and egg donors.

There is a phrase that comes to mind that is true and has been true for thousands of years; there are none so blind as those who will not see.

  That right there is why when I speed, I speed for real.  I've only had 3 speeding tickets my entire life, but I've always made it easy on the ticketing officer and myself.  I got one 5 years ago during the morning rush heading north on I-65 just north of Harding - absolutely beautiful commute, everybody, all four lanes, running 70+ mph in a 65 zone, no consideration whatsoever for HOV priveleges (stupid as all get out, but that's for another time).  I was running ~82 in the left lane with nothing but wide open space in front of me and got lasered by an unmarked car.  After I pull over, the officer comes to my window as says "What's the legal reason you were going 83 in a 65 mph zone?".  Me:  "Is there one?" :hat:

  Okay, let's take away the DL of every diabetic in the US.  That's bout 8% of the population.   If properly managed, passing out from diabetes is a low probability event.  Rather less likely than someone causing a wreck because they're too busy dicking around on their cell phone.

Since you started in Nashville, I'd recommend you head east.  There's plenty of small towns and plenty of land (small farms) for sale.  Personally, the further east you go, the better it gets.    TN, the patron state of shootin' stuff.  Generally discharge of a firearm is illegal within city limits, though I don't expect you'll have to worry about that.  Lots of public and some private ranges do not permit full auto fire or .50 BMG.  That's definitely something to check on.    The decent internet connection may cause some difficulty if you're really out in the sticks.  High speed broadband access is growing, but there's still lots of places where it's not available.  And the fact that you have to get it from the cable company make it worse.  Satellite internet is an option. 

And because it involves LEO a select few here will defend their actions no matter what, because they are "brothers". As a Marine, Iam in one of the tightest brotherhoods in the world. We always have each others back. But if a fellow Marine did something like that, I'd be the first to kick his ass and reccomend him for NJP. Brotherhood doesnt mean protecting bad apples and idiots. Thats why law enforcement is in the shape its in now. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

I thought this might be something that could be appreciated here. I have a forum dedicated to a make and model of automobile that I have been running for just shy of ten years. What and where isn't important. The who and how is. Through this forum for an obscure and discontinued nameplate I have made a close group of friends. Friends from all over the world. It is amazing how friends from a website can become friends through life. I have been hosting a small event for the last dozen years at Deal's Gap. We all get together, spends some time on the roads, get some cabins at Fontana and have a great weekend. Through this event and the activity on forum many of the folks I have met I have come to call friends, some, family. Officer Bruce Daniel Jacob of the Jackson Mississippi Police Dept. was one I considered family. I have known Bruce for several years through my forum. He became staff, eventually getting to be an administrator of the site within the last year. Bruce was an honest, giving man, and a damn fine mechanic. Several years ago I blew the engine in my car. Bruce happened to have a replacement engine sitting in his shop. It didn't take much and I wound up loading my car onto a trailer and driving from Knoxville, Tennessee to Jackson, Mississippi to spend the week with he and his wife and swap the engine in my car. That was the kind of man Bruce was. If you needed it and he had it, it was yours. That was why he became a police officer. He wanted to make a difference in the world. Even if it was one person. Bruce made a difference to a lot of people. Saturday afternoon Bruce was responding to a call of debris in the lanes of I-55 through Jackson. As Bruce was putting the barbecue grill someone had dropped into the trunk of his cruiser, he was struck and killed by a car. He was 35 years old. I just arrived home from attending his private family and friends only service on Tuesday. It was a small private ceremony, sans media attention or the fanfare of the pubic service that will be held Friday for a fallen hero. I was very emotionally moved to have been invited. Bruce was a dedicated public servant, a dedicated mechanic and a dedicated husband. The memorial reflected on all of these. However the moment that moved me the most was one photograph. It was of myself and Bruce taken those years ago in his shop, working on my car. It was then that I realized that not only had I considered Officer Bruce Jacob family, but he had considered me the same. Myself and a dozen other members of our internet family based on a forum dedicated to a nearly forgotten car came from all over the country to pay our respects to a man who was family in a way that only this modern technological age can define. I would like to end this with a plea to all that see anyone stopped on the side of the road, please, move over as much as you can. To our officers on the site, thank you for the risks you take on a daily basis to protect and serve. To any who have met someone on the internet and come to call them a friend, I think you can understand this. I have been on this site only a few years, but I have met several of you in person, and consider you friends. I know that some of you are very close. I think you would understand this. I will now put the picture that means the world to me. Rest in Peace Officer Bruce Daniel Jacob.

Can anyone explain why they would put her face-down on hot pavement anyway just for being unresponsive?  Why not just put her in the back of the crusier like I've seen them do to people who were clearly off their meds and hurling every curse word in the book.  She was in a car accident and doesn't look like a professional athlete.  It doesn't take an EMT to think, "Hey, she might be hurt."   While I won't call it abusive, it certainly appears to be uncaring.  Adds to that us vs. them perception that I thought police forces around the nation are trying to repair.  I guess these guys didn't get the memo.

Sounds more like Klingon. Japanese and German. Both the language of the pissed off. You can read a love poem in either one and it sounds like somebody is fixin to kill someone!

  Big difference between a whole police force of officer friendlies, and having a little common sense. If the womens plates came back as a felony warrant, or violent to officers thats one thing. Treating normal citizens like criminals, as more and more cops do everyday, is not acceptable. Police officers are hated and looked down upon because the majority of LEO interactions lead to this type of attitude. To many times I have seen a police officer drive right by someone with a flat tire, or car problems. No they are not repairmen, but an offer to call someone to help them would go a long ways. If cops wanna be liked, they need to lose the chip on their shoulder, the us vs them attitude, and start punishing those who do stupid stuff. You say a lawsuit would ruin his career? I say the man has no business being an LEO if that is how he conducts himself in that situation. It doesnt matter whether she had worse injuries or not because of their actions. The potential was there. If you discharge a firearm at a person, but miss, should you be turned loose because you didnt hit them and they sustained no injuries?

Police should get paid considerably more than what they are for several reasons. There are the obvious reasons, of course, but in addition to that, higher pay would attract more applicants thereby allowing departments to be more selective. Law of averages; the bigger the pool you pull from the more access to better quality. There are plenty of folks that would otherwise be in law enforcement who choose not to because they can't support their family on the pay. There are plenty of great cops that go into law enforcement for the best reasons and suffer the pay, and there are also the bad kind that go in for very, very wrong reasons. I don't think sense of duty and wanting to earn better wages are mutually exclusive.

  Good point, sounds like both were doing a good job.  I had rather see an officer on patrol where bad things have been happening than writing tickets if I have to choose one or the other.  That proactive approach won't yield tickets or likely even contact and you can't prove a negative (police were in the neighborhood so there was no crime) but you know that if the thieves and vandals were out that night their night did not go as planned.

TMF hit the issue square on the head.  This is the answer...  This is the root of what is being hoped for and politiced for:     The same thing wuz said in knoxville.  Its simply another hopeful attempt to make law abiding folks think twice about arming themselves and make them more apt to take a beating, rape, or a robbery without resisting.  It's disgusting.   leroy

looks like the primer seating rod got out of line, or pushed with to much force, or the crimp rod got off center, or to much force.   in others words the machine that seats and crimps the primers got out of line.  it should not/will not hurt in the shooting of them.  you will have to cut more of the crimp out than normal if you are going to reload them.

The only way I can figure that folks oppose stand you ground laws is that they don't want people to shoot the gangbangers they provided a womb for. There is no other logical reason I can come up with. On another note, I still can't believe how stupid Americans are that SYG is still synonymous with the Trayvon Martin killing when it had nothing to do with it. So this is what I can gather: 1. In the early days of this case SYG was referenced, and the media burrowed this into the story like a tick. 2. Liberals saw the opportunity to change pro-carry legislation, so they kept the SYG debate in the forefront, using the Martin case as their soapbox, even though they knew one had nothing to do with the other. 3. In a way to poetically weave their agenda into racial tensions, SYG became the villain against black youths, and the liberals exploited the incorrect perception that somehow the legislation is responsible for white people killing young black men, thus galvanizing the movement against SYG. 4. The assault continues as low information voters label any facts or evidence contrary to the narrative as "racist" while at the same time supporting a theory that innocents should have less rights than the criminals who do them harm. On the bright side, this racist thing really seems to be losing its bite. I would think that it would go away altogether, but then some idiot shows up and makes a comment about fried chicken and watermelon which only reaffirms what the libtards have been saying all along about our side. We can't expect both sides of this to make it solely about the facts, but if we could just make our side about the facts as opposed to a few folks injecting true racism into the mix then our logic would be undeniable.

Come and take them, by God.

If I had a longer beard and bigger hammer, I'd look like this: sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQ9hjTHNJM  

  And without question I bet you are 100% correct from a medical standpoint and your experience demands respect.  But, these guys are not medical professionals, they are supposed ot be law enforcement professionals which require approaching situations from different thought processes and directions, with a different intent.   Their duties and responsibilities are completely different than yours if you showed up on scene.

Besides the tactical issues, don't forget that if you are involved in an SD shoot, no matter how clean you think it is, you could face charges if the DA thinks otherwise, even if it's in your own home. Consider how the weapon used by you will play before a jury of non-gun-lovin' people.   Whatever you decide, create a plan and practice it.

I've been going there since it was Gillian's and have never once carried.... they got booze!

  Beginner's first aid doesn't teach you how to tell the difference between someone driving after snorting bath salts or having blood sugar problems.   I am the first to say that cops should be charged with crimes just like any of us, but just as bigk said there is a lot of shit going on there that we don't see; it's just another tape edited by the media to show their message agenda. Anyone who has been in those crappy situations can tell you that it is impossible to process all of the data, impossible no matter how awesome of an analyst they think they are.  It's easy for us to see the video and say officer 1 did this wrong, officer 2 did this wrong, because we don't have all of our senses being flooded with variables from the computer screen, we can easily focus on a few select items.   As you said in the previous post about dragging her out, what happened if the car caught fire and they left her in it?  what happened if she jerked something in gear and ran over a cop? it wouldn't take more than a couple of feet to run over and kill someone... what if the driver had a gun under the seat? she had no idea what was going on so she could've very well got spooked and started shooting.  what if she started squirming around inside the car and cut herself up from shards of metal or glass and started bleeding out?   We can play the what-ifs from a computer screen all day long, that's why i stopped trying to make judgements based on videos that are obviously designed to drum up an emotion of some sort until the underlying story is out.  Perfect example is that idiot in murfreesboro that went through the dui checkpoint, people were screaming how it was terrible until they found out it was planned and he was a student pursuing a degree in media then the whole damn thing just disappeared.

See, THIS is why I suggested not overreacting until you had all the facts. The woman was so disoriented that she tried multiple times to drive off, meaning she was unresponsive, not unconscious. She was moving around in the vehicle, which most likely made the cops thing she wasn't injured. Thinking she was drunk and had already struck a stopped vehicle, the officer decided to gett her out of the car and subdued before she could hurt someone or herself. I get that she was disoriented due to her medical condition, but it sounds JUST like something a drunk driver would do. Later in the article it states that as soon as they found out she was diabetic they called an ambulance for her. I think mistaking her actions for that of a drunk is more than understandable.

I have places to go, things to do, money to EARN, and a family to support. Some idiotic lowlifes that slouch their worthless carcasses in the middle of the interstate are not going to keep me from those duties. I'll do whatever I have to do to cause myself and other respectable citizens the least amount of inconvenience possible. If they want to stand on the side of the road and wave signs while waiting on their welfare checks, whatever. However, they better not stand in the middle of the road and try to keep me from going to work to pay for their welfare checks.

I will be holding a Tennessee buy back in Knoxville. Bring me your evil guns and receive a Wal Mart gift card. :up:

IMO, it depends on the configuration of your home, number of corners, walls, stairs, outside your home with neighbors close by, children in your bedrooms, etc.   When my burglar alarm went off at 3:00 A.M. some time ago, I grabbed my 870 shotgun and quickly realized it was to awkward and cumbersome for the twists, turns, configuration and stairs in my home. So I went back to my bedroom and grabbed my handgun.   Lots of things to consider and a practice session might be beneficial, as it was for me, and thankfully it was a false alarm. If the real thing happens, you best have all your bugs worked out and have a definitive plan and the proper tools to maximize your desired outcome.   What works best for one person probably won't be your best choice.

He forgot his green sock that day.

I think agreeing to disagree is best. You can call the police, tell them do arrest the 100's of people in the mob (not domestic terrorists), and when the police don't/can't and the mob starts turning violent, you can look for someone like me that will be prepared to lay down a path for ALL of us victims to pass through, once i have insured my family is safe. Including people I completely disagree with or feel like say things just to stir the pot...

    ORSA is the place for high power. 

I have to laugh (derisively) when someone says that crap like this was simply a 'mistake' on the part of LEO (or anyone else.)  My response is always along the lines of, "Oops - I didn't mean to yank a woman who wasn't posing a threat to anyone out of her car, put her on the pavement and handcuff her.  My bad.  I made a mistake - but she didn't ask 'how high' when we told her to jump so it was kind of her fault, you know."  Sorry, that isn't a 'mistake' because it was done quite on purpose and by someone who should have had full knowledge that it wasn't necessary.   A mistake is something like shooting a suspect because the officer mistook the airsoft gun he was holding for a real one.  That is a mistake, and a justifiable one.  Yanking this woman out of her car, etc. was not a mistake.  Instead, it was an example of stupidity brought on by poor judgement and, likely, a lack of professionalism and inability on the part of the officers to control their emotions - there is a difference.   I also have to chuckle a little when people suggest that re-training is 'enough' to deal with cops who could have brought about the death or serious, bodily injury of someone who was not posing a threat.  We have 'zero tolerance' policies for everything else.  Personally, I'd like to see 'zero tolerance' for cops who engage in activity such as this.

I see nor can I imagine any "facts" that can justify what the cops did to this woman.   1. You cannot tell how badly someone may be hurt just by looking at them or at the damage. I was in an accident this past April (lady turned left in front of me) that totaled my 2012 Nismo 370Z and the much large car of the woman who turned left in front of me...I walked away with a couple of scratches; she had to be taken by chopper to Vanderbilt where she spent over 3 weeks in the hospital.   3 [2]. Regardless of whether her condition was known or whether she should or shouldn't have been driving is a matter to be dealt with later; at the time of the accident she was an accident VICTIM with potential severe injuries and should have been treated that way.   4. Temperature of the asphalt?  This was New Mexico in July...what do you think the temp was! Hell, forget it was NM...how hot does the asphalt get here! How long can you leave your face planted on the blacktop on a July day...do you think you'll be burnt?  Why would that even mater anyway...there is ZERO reason to put someone face down on asphalt on a July day, in TN or NM.   5. Doesn't matter if she was drunk or not...drunks can be injured in an accident too...sure; the drunk is allegedly a criminal and the other (medical issue) isn't but once the accident happened the person was an accident VICTIM with the potential of severe injuries.   This was just a traffic accident; not the end of a high speed chase or a felony stop...short or a fire in a vehicle or some other imminent danger of death there is simply NO reason to drag a potentially injured person out of a car like that...it's beyond irresponsible and these cops should be disciplined for doing it.  Further, if this is a result of their training or lack of it then the city needs to be disciplined too.

I don't do pissing matches, but consider 2 things. 1) intimidation begins when your rights are violated or Infringed upon. I this case, your right to travel safely to and from a destination have been taken away from you and hundreds or thousands of others. 2) if your wife and kids/family member/friend is in need of medical aid, and they are headed to the hospital and are stopped or the medics are blocked from getting to you or them, By this mob of people on the interstate with no option to turn around, or proceed unimpeeded to the hospital, do you just consider this an inconvenience of some friendly protestors or has your right to medical attention. Or I impeded travel been violated? Violent or not, that's domestic terrorism at its finest. And as far as lethal force, I didn't say anything about drones or snipers. I will use lethal force to protect me and mine. If I had a drone, and the situation required it, yes I just might use it :-)

I think the first mistake is the fact that she was driving a car at all.  Ok, if this was her first episode I can buy that, but if it was not she was taking a chance with every person around her.  If this was not her first attack she should not have been driving, and should never drive again now.  I am not saying the cops were right, just that she might have been wrong too. 

It seems the law should go after the senders of this sickening porn at the very least! Why are they not investigating the senders and bring up charges?

Here's how I feel about Self Defense.  It  means I don't have to RUN (which I am unable to do due to injuries and age)  if approached by a thug and HOPE for SURVIVAL from the situation in a completely DEFENSELESS position.  I have a right to exist HASSLE FREE wherever I am legally entitled to be. It reiterates my GOD given right to defend my life and the life of those I LOVE in a dire situation imposed on me by a THUG with the intent to do bodily harm to me or someone I love.   If YOU want to grab your ANKLES, that's fine with me, just don't WHINE after you bow down to the thug and endure HIS delightful SINS upon your person or upon someone you love.   REMEMBER.....WHEN SECONDS COUNT, HELP IS ONLY MINUTES AWAY......

Any one in this day and time that does not have a way to protect them and theirs is CRAZY!!! So why are they looking at us, because we will fight back.

see how easy it is to get the facts all f***d up.  But it is ok to judge LEO by what the news said.

If a person has a medical condition that can cause the death of an innocent person they should not be driving…. Period.   Was the guy in truck injured?

A 500 caliber handgun? He's a police officer and he calls a .50 caliber handgun a 500 caliber.  Five Hundred!  That idiot is too stupid to carry a gun.

I hope she sues them for about $20million and wins...there is simply no excuse for that kind of idiocy...even if she had been drunk she deserved better treatment than that.   Hell, the cops usually treat fleeing felons they've caught after a foot chase better than that and will call for medical if the thug even has a scratch.

I've been whatchin this one for some time.  I, like many of our brother and sister opiners here, am concerned at the "militarizing" idea.   Havin said that, i think the only solution is pressure on elected officials.    I've believed for a long time that the city police force thing has been way out of hand in lots of juristictions (...not all...) due to the fact that police chiefs are appointed and not elected. There seems to be no greater "rush" for the would be dictators and sourlands politicos and the political class (...with the possible exception of spending and looting the citizen's money....) than to have a SWAT type group of "police" at your beck and call ALA Bloomberg and Menino (...Boston...) to give the "muscle" to do whatever the machine wants.   I think one of the main reasons you have the SWAT type operation abuses (...and over-uses...) in big cities is exactly because of this.  Look at the Boston thing as a great example.  The scenes from Boston look like somethin that i saw as a kid comming from the Communist Block.   It's un-American on it's face.   This militaristic policing concept is basically un-american on it's face... It points right back to the problem that i believe is endemic to the "big cities" (...and some other locations as well...); the problem of being a "serf" and a "subject" that bows to the political class, no matter the offense or incursion on the rights of the citizenry.  There are many in the political class and in the citizenry would have you go right back to the european fiefdom model to be "subjects" rather, than retaining the american model where you are a "citizen".  It's the battle (...as my 24 year old is fond of saying...) of the "New World and the "Old World"; nothin else.     Many in the inner cities have no notion of what it means to be an American, to live in the "New World", and to enjoy the freedoms we take for granted here.  They seem to have no notion that there was a war over these very offenses that are now common.   I think this is an over-arching problem in the blue states and cities where machine politics runs everything.  But, for the most part, that seems to be what folks in those locations like...  I they like it, so be it.... Just dont bring it down here.   Sheriffs, by way of contrast, are elected, so they have to be in tune with the citizenry, so to speak.  I'll grant that there are abuses there, but there is a mechanism to handle the problem if it gets out of line.   RE:  The federal bureaucratic, alphabet SWAT thing (...FBI, INS, IRS, DEA, KGB, NSA, on and on....): Ive been waitin for one of the federal SWAT bunches to commit a heinous enough blunder (...they will, sooner or later, they always do...) to gin up support at the federal level to stop this foolishness.  This one will be a slam dunk when it goes up against the Bill of Rights (...i think...) due to the Fourth Amendment thing and the ability of congress to defund certain activities within the ABC organizations specifically.   As other have wisely opined, I think that the drug laws and the seisure laws are way out of hand everywhere; and i dont understand why some fortunate son hasnt made this a federal issue ALA the Fourth Amendment.   In sumary, i believe this one is simmering (...witness the WSJ article, in and of itself....) and may boil over if the right set of circumstances come up.  This one needs fixin, and it needs fixin bad.    leroy

Hey, we don't run around bragging about, or sit back admiring our framing hammers, chain saws or shovels, but when we need them we need them and don't want any crap from them.  They're there, every time.   I was a Glock hater for many years.  I was on the tupper-hater bandwagon for a long time.  Crow was not good eatin' but I did.  No matter who bad mouths a Glock, you'll know they're an idiot an unworthy of engaging in conversation if they ever say they won't do their job.  AND, at the end of the day, that's what I want from a self defense weapon.  

For $100 more the S&W is by far a better buy...just my opinion of course.   :2cents:

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.  As someone who has taught countless people to ride I can attest that it is much easier to learn motorcycle fundamentals on a bike that is light weight and doesn't have mountains of power.  I know that you ride a Goldwing, which I think is a fine ride but I would never tell someone that a Goldwing makes a great first bike.  If I'm teaching someone that has zero motorcycle experience I start them out on a CRF88 which has an automatic clutch, I then move them to one that has a manual clutch and then onto a KLX250.  For a first bike I recommend something that doesn't have body work, as it is expensive to replace when damaged, and you ARE going to drop that first bike, something that doesn't have a crazy amount of power and something that is light weight.  I had a 2006 GSXR1000 it was a very fun bike but there is no way that I would tell a person that they should get it as a first bike because that is the bike they want, with 180+HP weighing in at 440 pounds, that's just a death trap in the wrong hands.  By the way, I'm always willing to work with and teach anyone who wants to ride free of charge, I'll even provide the bikes.

Just wanted to add that I, sure as everyone else, appreciate the folks behind the scenes working to make this happen. I assume it would be pretty frustrating to put the work into something and get folks excited only to have someone you trusted pull the carpet out from under you. Sucks to hear. Thanks for your effort.

  Pretty much my sentiments.   If it's serious enough for the gun to come out, perp must make a very quick decision indeed how he's gonna behave from there. Of course, if he has a weapon of any kind, he's already made it.   - OS